drumcorpsfever Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Each year, members choose their corps without any regard or information on what the next year's show will be. Their role is not to design, rather to perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadevilina Crown Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Guess what today's best designers were doing 10, 20, 30 summers ago? They were in the exact same position as today's MMs are, marching a show that they didn't have any control over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 If my daughter was offered a spot in a summer music program at the Eastman School of Music, or Berklee, or any of the myriad upper music schools, she (and I) would care less what the program they're going to work on contains. Why would the Blue Devils be any different? They have a track record of putting on entertaining and successful programs as well as developing insanely talented musicians, and if you trust them to keep doing so, there you go. When I went to my college summer band camp, I was proud as heck to be there, even if we were playing a completely weird jazzy piece with a spoken word interlude. It never occurred to me that I'd expect to participate in developing the program; why would I? That would be counterintuitive... Mike 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I will have to agree that when I first saw it in Foxboro, I did not think it fit, but I enjoyed it. I assumed it would have been cut by mid-July, but it wasn't. In subsequent shows it grew on me. I thought it was well choreographed and it performed well. It was also non-Blue Devils. I like corps stepping away a bit and that also gave it an appeal.however they received a great score and took home a title, so it wasn't a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Look at the anger and frustration in this post, above. Marching members aren't taught how to analyze design. They're taught only to execute. Think about it. Drum corps is not a creative art form for the participants, only for the designers. It's' true. We never ask marching members to create or question design, only to perform as instructed. As a result, you see comments like this where marching members are absolutely mystified and threatened when it comes to the very most basic design analysis. They call design analysis an "intellectual" pursuit. Doesn't have to be. Design analysis is not that hard, but to someone who has been taught only to execute, and not to question the artistic intent behind the music or show design, and taught that cleanliness is their only focus, then of course they have no ability to analyze what they're performing. Sadly, most marching members are literally executing a performance art piece and they have no idea why. No idea what the meaning behind the show is. This is antithetical to the nature of the art of performance. For example, a pop composer has a creative impulse, writes lyrics and music to support that idea, and a song is born. He owns it. But in drum corps, someone else creates music with meaning, and marching members robotically execute it, and sometimes don't even understand it. That's just bizarre. Marching members are watching other corps' performances and have no idea what they're watching, and get frustrated at the idea of having to research the artistic impulse behind a design element. Sister Wendy, that crazy nun, walks around interpreting famous paintings. In her eyes, each element reveals a specific intent by the painter. She gives credence to the idea that the artist has a specific intent and his choices are conscious and meaningful. Drum corps design is the same way. For the most part, design decisions support the meaning behind the music, and each element reveals a specific intent by the designer. I'm always shocked when drum corps participants think that show design elements are random or not worth researching. It's like, have you ever written anything? Have you ever composed music? Have you ever written or produced a film or a play? Created a collage? Selected a color pallete? Taken a class in art appreciation? And the answer is, of course not. (Now someone with a binary thought process, likely a drummer or musician will chime in here that not 100 percent of design decisions are objective, representational or conscious choices. Yay, congratulations. But most design choices are conscious creative choices, or at least influenced subconsciously by the theme. Create a drum corps show with a completely randomly designed show and I'll show you a corps in 43rd place.) Drum corps attracts people who are essentially robots who execute, not creative thinkers. Drum corp attracts people who blindly execute music and drill. Drum corps draws people who get headaches when presented with design analysis. Look at this message board. Very few here understand depth of concept, which is on the score sheet. Cadets created a frivolous show last year with absolutely no depth of concept, and binary thinkers on here couldn't understand why it didn't win despite its masterful execution. Most of the discussion on here is how ZYZ corps needs to really "execute" a lot better. Or how so and so's score will be a lot better once they "execute" XYZ better. And then people are mystified when their show doesn't score better than another closely scoring show with a stronger depth of concept. It's so laughable. There's little or no attention paid to why the music was selected, why the kids are performing this choice of music, and how the choreography, drill sets or choice of music supports a theme and how that impacts the score in a big way. Because that analysis requires critical thinking. That requires a creative mind. That requires the marching members to ask the show designers why they chose the elements they did. But that's regarded as insubordination. Marching members, if you really want to select a corps with a winning show design, and if you really want to score well on your depth of concept, rise up! Ask the hard questions! Ask about your show concept! Ask about your depth of concept! 1) What's the meaning behind this music? 2) Who chose this music and why? 3) How do the drill sets, action and choreography support the theme? 4) Is the selected theme something you subscribe to? Something you agree with? Something with depth, humor, drama and humanity? 5) Did the person choosing the music consider you when they chose it? 6) Was this music selected simply because there's no royalty due? 7) Do the designers represent your vision? 8) Do your designers avoid discussion about why a piece of music was selected? Or give frivolous responses to questions about the meaning behind the music like "color" or "tempo or "volume"? 9) Do your designers talk more about color palette and frivolous associations that the music has, rather than on its social context, the intent of the composer or its historical context or its application to your theme? If so, it's a big red warning flag. And not a cool flag with another flag rolled up underneath it. Hey, who you callin' "binary", dude? Drummers, like, man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I'm always shocked when drum corps participants think that show design elements are random or not worth researching. It's like, have you ever written anything? Have you ever composed music? Have you ever written or produced a film or a play? Created a collage? Selected a color pallete? Taken a class in art appreciation? And the answer is, of course not. (Now someone with a binary thought process, likely a drummer or musician will chime in here that not 100 percent of design decisions are objective, representational or conscious choices. Yay, congratulations. But most design choices are conscious creative choices, or at least influenced subconsciously by the theme. Create a drum corps show with a completely randomly designed show and I'll show you a corps in 43rd place.) Wait, so the only way I'm "qualified" to open my trap about a drum corps show is if I pass your CV requirements? What if I come to drum corps shows to just enjoy musical performance on sultry high school football field? Do I have to have an art Phd to be qualified to comment on the show's quality? Getting a little pretentious in an, otherwise, interesting post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Look at this message board. Very few here understand depth of concept, which is on the score sheet. Cadets created a frivolous show last year with absolutely no depth of concept, and binary thinkers on here couldn't understand why it didn't win despite its masterful execution. Most of the discussion on here is how ZYZ corps needs to really "execute" a lot better. Or how so and so's score will be a lot better once they "execute" XYZ better. And then people are mystified when their show doesn't score better than another closely scoring show with a stronger depth of concept. It's so laughable. There's little or no attention paid to why the music was selected, why the kids are performing this choice of music, and how the choreography, drill sets or choice of music supports a theme and how that impacts the score in a big way. Because that analysis requires critical thinking. That requires a creative mind. That requires the marching members to ask the show designers why they chose the elements they did. But that's regarded as insubordination. Marching members, if you really want to select a corps with a winning show design, and if you really want to score well on your depth of concept, rise up! Ask the hard questions! Ask about your show concept! Ask about your depth of concept! Oh, OK, so you're a Cadets hater. Check, and got it. We binary drummer-thinkers couldn't understand their design concepts.... OK, we're dunderheads. (Dopey-dopey, doo. Hotdogs!) Some people are mystified, some are not. I've lost track in your post about which you think the "many" represents... OK, so you're a freakin' anarchist who want marching members to Speak UP for themselves, Demand WHY the designers are designing as they are! Revolt against the unknowable design disasters that confine drum corps marching members from experiencing their GREATEST POTENTIAL!!! Jeesh. I'm exhausted. I....think...pretty critically. I....uh....work with numbers. Is my mind creative enough to comment here, according to you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) 1) What's the meaning behind this music? 2) Who chose this music and why? 3) How do the drill sets, action and choreography support the theme? 4) Is the selected theme something you subscribe to? Something you agree with? Something with depth, humor, drama and humanity? 5) Did the person choosing the music consider you when they chose it? 6) Was this music selected simply because there's no royalty due? 7) Do the designers represent your vision? 8) Do your designers avoid discussion about why a piece of music was selected? Or give frivolous responses to questions about the meaning behind the music like "color" or "tempo or "volume"? 9) Do your designers talk more about color palette and frivolous associations that the music has, rather than on its social context, the intent of the composer or its historical context or its application to your theme? If so, it's a big red warning flag. And not a cool flag with another flag rolled up underneath it. Dood, egghhh.... Have you ever actually BEEN to drum corps tryouts? Do you really think that this is the way drum corps IS, or is this the way you wish drum corps WERE? You're charging KIDS with the responsibility to RISE UP! against designers and arrangers who ABSOLUTELY and DEFINITELY know better than the MM what it takes to perform a drum corps show for a score. There is NO TIME for auditioning members to answer these questions during audition weekends. Kids go where the know the staff, or they go where they think they can trust the staff to give them a challenging show that lets them live the life. "Was the music selected simply because there was no royalty due?" Are you freaking-kidding me? This is summer band, man. Let's keep the perspective. Edited December 22, 2015 by garfield 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) If my daughter was offered a spot in a summer music program at the Eastman School of Music, or Berklee, or any of the myriad upper music schools, she (and I) would care less what the program they're going to work on contains. Why would the Blue Devils be any different? They have a track record of putting on entertaining and successful programs as well as developing insanely talented musicians, and if you trust them to keep doing so, there you go. When I went to my college summer band camp, I was proud as heck to be there, even if we were playing a completely weird jazzy piece with a spoken word interlude. It never occurred to me that I'd expect to participate in developing the program; why would I? That would be counterintuitive... Mike AMEN brother Mike. Speak the truth to the masses, man. It's NOT different. Edited December 22, 2015 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 At least 2 corps picked up experienced screaming soprano soloists in 1992 after vets found out what their own home corps was doing for design. It happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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