BRASSO Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) Personally, I think the music arrangements in Drum Corps were better BITD.... for the simple reason that there were well defined impact points in the show. There were " concerts " where in the middle of the show, Corps could play elongated renditions of songs, with a well defined beginning and end. That said, while these Corps marched, the visuals, compared to today, really were quite limited and elementary in many cases back then. Thus, a Corps with a good brass line and drumline could do a stationary park and bark and win a DCI Title. Corps could play many recognizeable songs that today would be difficult to play by virtue of the current sync rights. The G's, while crass in tone and older technologies, were loud, and loud was considered good, back then.. Today, DCI Drum Corps is more visual and guard oriented. The visual formations have evolved into far more sophisticated patterns than BITD. Corps today can even run( even out of step sometimes !) to these new and highly creative visual formations, that years ago was unthinkable to do. In order to make the new " Visual Age " of DCI work however, something got sacrificed in the process, imo. Music became a supplement to the visual, not the other way around as it had been in the earlier years. Military precision gave way to dance pageantry. I take no position as to which is " better " as neither is the same... just different. But the importance of the visual and the guard, has diminished the ability of current Corps to play extended music pieces in many cases. The songs oftentimes get chopped up..... abbreviated. To those unfamilar with how it was done in the past, their frame of reference is probably such that the current is primarily all they know... so there is no jarring change in how music used to be played, and how the arrangements were typically written BITD. So while its jarring to many vets of the activity, the oftentimes abbreviated music arrangements of today it is not an issue to many in the current fanbase. Thats my sense of things anyway on this. Edited July 19, 2016 by BRASSO 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Personally, I think the music arrangements in Drum Corps were better BITD.... for the simple reason that there were well defined impact points in the show. There were " concerts " where in the middle of the show, Corps could play elongated renditions of songs, with a well defined beginning and end. That said, while these Corps marched, the visuals, compared to today, really were quite limited and elementary in many cases back then. Thus, a Corps with a good brass line and drumline could do a stationary park and bark and win a DCI Title. Corps could play songs that today would be subject to sync rights. The G's, while crass in tone and older technologies, were loud, and loud was considered good, back then.. Today, DCI Drum Corps is more visual and guard oriented. The visual formations have evolved into far more sophisticated patterns than BITD. Corps can run to these formations, that years ago was unthinkable. In order to make the new " Visual Age " of DCI work however, something got sacrificed in the process, imo. Music became a supplement to the visual, not the other way around as it had been in the earlier years. Military precision gave way to dance pageantry. I take no position as to which is " better " as neither is the same... just different. But the importance of the visual and the guard, has diminished the ability of current Corps to play extended music pieces in many cases. The songs oftentimes get chopped up..... abbreviated. To those unfamilar with how it was done in the past, their frame of reference is probably such that the current is primarily all they know... so there is no jarring change in how music used to be played, and how the arrangements were typically written BITD. So while its jarring to many vets of the activity, the oftentimes abbreviated music arrangements of today it is not an issue to many in the current fanbase. Thats my sense of things anyway on this. I agree about the arrangements, but how anyone can say visuals today are better than '87 Cadets, '93 Star or Cavies for a number of years is beyond me. Color guards yes, drill no. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMadMan Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) I agree about the arrangements, but how anyone can say visuals today are better than '87 Cadets, '93 Star or Cavies for a number of years is beyond me. Color guards yes, drill no.The thing that always elicits a belly laugh from me is the "body movement". There are what...like 5 moves that every corps repeats? And it's always just forced in with no rhyme or reason. It's like they are sitting around going "well, we have them standing still for 8 counts and that's unacceptable, so after 4 counts the hornline has to do a wide stance semi-squat and then kick their right heel out for the last 2 counts." It's so nonsensical and just looks stupid.To this day, NO ONE (sans maybe Cavies Spin Cycle) has incorporated body movement into a show better than '93 Star. 23 years ago. And even then, it was a part of the vibe they were selling, not just some compulsory act. Edited July 19, 2016 by BigBadMadMan 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) I agree about the arrangements, but how anyone can say visuals today are better than '87 Cadets, '93 Star or Cavies for a number of years is beyond me. Color guards yes, drill no. its simply a matter of preference, taste. I think '93 Star, '87 Cadets had great visuals. but if I muted the music the entire show and only watched both these Corps visuals and compared these 2 Corps visuals to ( for example ) this season's Santa Clara Vanguard, to be honest with you, I prefer this season's SCV visuals. Now, having said this, if I am asked to close my eyes and just listen to '87 Cadets, or '93 Star, I prefer their music than that that of this season's SCV.. Since this is a Madison thread, I prefer their '99 music over this years music.... but this year's visuals over the '99 Scouts visuals. But thats just me. Since I'm a music guy first, visuals and guard guy 2nd, I liked the 99 Scouts version of this show theme a bit better. Edited July 19, 2016 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 its simply a matter of preference, taste. I think '93 Star, '87 Cadets had great visuals. but if I muted the music the entire show and only watched borh these Corps visuals and compared these 2 Corps visuals to ( for example ) this season's Santa Clara Vanguard, to be honest with you, I prefer this season's SCV visuals. Now, having said this, if I am asked to close my eyes and just listen to '87 Cadets, or '93 Star, I prefer their music than that that of this season's SCV... Since this is a Madison thread, I prefer their '99 music over this years music.... but this year's visuals over the '99 Scouts visuals. But thats just me... my preference here too, of course. That makes sense, but as a whole, I loved the integration we saw between music and visual back then. Forms flowed with the music, and hornlines played difficult passages while on the move. Shows they were seemed to be designed to entertain and win. Now, it seems all about the sheets. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 The thing that always elicits a belly laugh from me is the "body movement". There are what...like 5 moves that every corps repeats? And it's always just forced in with no rhyme or reason. It's like they are sitting around going "well, we have them standing still for 8 counts and that's unacceptable, so after 4 counts the hornline has to do a wide stance semi-squat and then kick their right heel out for the last 2 counts." It's so nonsensical and just looks stupid. To this day, NO ONE (sans maybe Cavies Spin Cycle) has incorporated body movement into a show better than '93 Star. 23 years ago. And even then, it was a part of the vibe they were selling, not just some compulsory act. Boy do I agree with this! When heads are bobbing left and right with no connection whatsoever to the music, it just looks ridiculous. It's like - oh look, see how I can play while rocking my head from 90 degrees to the left to 90 degrees to the right. Now I will put my feet together and squat at the knees. All while playing a lush ballad. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry7184 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 The thing that always elicits a belly laugh from me is the "body movement". There are what...like 5 moves that every corps repeats? And it's always just forced in with no rhyme or reason. It's like they are sitting around going "well, we have them standing still for 8 counts and that's unacceptable, so after 4 counts the hornline has to do a wide stance semi-squat and then kick their right heel out for the last 2 counts." It's so nonsensical and just looks stupid. To this day, NO ONE (sans maybe Cavies Spin Cycle) has incorporated body movement into a show better than '93 Star. 23 years ago. And even then, it was a part of the vibe they were selling, not just some compulsory act. I agree. The body movements are ridiculous. It's over the top. I'm losing interest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) That makes sense, but as a whole, I loved the integration we saw between music and visual back then. Forms flowed with the music, and hornlines played difficult passages while on the move. Shows they were seemed to be designed to entertain and win. Now, it seems all about the sheets. This is exactly the problem. The "sheets" could just as easily reward forms that flow with the music, and hornlines that play difficult passages while on the move. But they don't. If you want to change the designs, change the sheets. It's as simple as that. Edited July 19, 2016 by Hrothgar15 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Personally, I think the music arrangements in Drum Corps were better BITD.... for the simple reason that there were well defined impact points in the show. There were " concerts " where in the middle of the show, Corps could play elongated renditions of songs, with a well defined beginning and end. That said, while these Corps marched, the visuals, compared to today, really were quite limited and elementary in many cases back then. Thus, a Corps with a good brass line and drumline could do a stationary park and bark and win a DCI Title. Corps could play many recognizeable songs that today would be difficult to play by virtue of the current sync rights. The G's, while crass in tone and older technologies, were loud, and loud was considered good, back then.. Today, DCI Drum Corps is more visual and guard oriented. The visual formations have evolved into far more sophisticated patterns than BITD. Corps today can even run( even out of step sometimes !) to these new and highly creative visual formations, that years ago was unthinkable to do. In order to make the new " Visual Age " of DCI work however, something got sacrificed in the process, imo. Music became a supplement to the visual, not the other way around as it had been in the earlier years. Military precision gave way to dance pageantry. I take no position as to which is " better " as neither is the same... just different. But the importance of the visual and the guard, has diminished the ability of current Corps to play extended music pieces in many cases. The songs oftentimes get chopped up..... abbreviated. To those unfamilar with how it was done in the past, their frame of reference is probably such that the current is primarily all they know... so there is no jarring change in how music used to be played, and how the arrangements were typically written BITD. So while its jarring to many vets of the activity, the oftentimes abbreviated music arrangements of today it is not an issue to many in the current fanbase. Thats my sense of things anyway on this. Concert number was my least favorite part of corps shows overall. I can only think of a couple I enjoyed. I liked the music and movement even back then, so the idea of standing still and just playing I found overall very dull. Corps music without marching was just not all that good in and of itself, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Concert number was my least favorite part of corps shows overall. I can only think of a couple I enjoyed. I liked the music and movement even back then, so the idea of standing still and just playing I found overall very dull. Corps music without marching was just not all that good in and of itself, IMO. Marching? I'm not familiar with that. What is it? I see a lot of other stuff. Oh, that reminds me - about the middle of the Cavies show, right up front, a brass player takes about 8 counts to move about 12 inches. It's hilarious to watch him gesticulate into position, moving his lower body and feet without actually moving anywhere on the field. Anyone else catch that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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