Trombones 2016

[BRASSO]

As someone who marched in one of the CYO bands, there's no question that the drum corps had quite an appeal, but there were competitive opportunities for the top drum corps that the bands did not have. My guess is that even if there opportunities for the bands, the drum corps would still have the popular appeal, but there are a few things to keep in mind:

When the top corps went on tour, in my day Boston Crusaders and Notth Star (27th no longer competed in the circuits at that time but often performed in exhibition), attendance at circuit shows whether it be drum corps with drill teams or bands with drill teams was about the same. In the case of the average corps or band, fans were usually local people or families. The top corps drew crowds, but without them attendance did not vary all that much.

I know many of the people involved in CYO glory days, especially the priests, and bands and drum corps were founded for different reasons. Bands in general were musical units first and had a winter concert series. Drum corps did too, but it was usually a rehash of the previous summer or a preview of coming attractions. The bands were actual concerts. Also at one point, the big difference between the two was the ability to read music. For some corps, it was a youth activity with a goal of bringing everyone together. A kid who was an athlete, he/she could play a CYO sport but could also march. A non athlete could too. In many cases (though not all), the bands were formed in parishes that had schools. Public schools had bands, Catholic schools did not. As a way of keeping students in the Catholic schools, the parish offering a band was an advantage.

Many of the top corps preferred to recruit drummers from the bands rather than the drum corps because it was easier to train them for the corps due to their training. As arrangements became more advanced, some corps found the band members could learn to play a bugle in a short time, even gasp, the woodwind players. Many alums of St. Agnes Arlington, St. William, Dorchester, St. Joe's in Medford and Medway, Immaculate, Everett, and Sacted Heart, Roslindale marched with many great corps.

I agree with much ( but not all ) of these myriad of assessments you made here. But I suppose we have now gone WAYY off the topic.( with me as guilty as any other on the derailment )... this thread topic is on " trombones ", and its use by presumably several of the top DCI Corps this season.

Now, for those interested in a discussion of the trombone brass instrument.... the thread is now returned to you......

Edited April 27, 2016 by BRASSO

[Screamer]

Trombones so far have been used for only features(Scouts 15, SCV 14 come to mind) times are changing again.

This change will upset many people but it's a welcome change, Cadets have been using French horns since 2013 and it works well, so why not add another instrument to the equation.

I just feel like most people dislike change and would rather see the activity not evolve. It has evolved in 10 years, it will again.

[BRASSO]

I just feel like most people dislike change and would rather see the activity not evolve. It has evolved in 10 years, it will again.

Huh ? The Drum & Bugle Corps movement the last 50 years has " evolved " more than any other sport or youth competitive endeavor that one can possibly think of. The comment then that you make here that " most people dislike change" ( insofar as it relates to DCI fans ) seems surreal to me... almost other worldly. Most of the current fan base in DCI comes from the scholastic Marching Band realm, and these people are as supportive of the change to include more usage of conventional Marching Band instruments in DCI .. such as the use of the trombone... than you are thinking. I don't sense much outrage anymore that Drum & Bugle Corps have morphed into Scholastic Marching Band, nor sense that most of the current DCI fan base " dislike ( this ) change ". Of course, DCI units in the coming years will look increasingly like many of the Marching Bands out and about in this country. Who could possibly disagree with that assessment either ? Its already looking indistinquishable to many.... which was where this was all headed toward for years now too, imo.

Edited April 27, 2016 by BRASSO

[DrumManTx]

Trombones so far have been used for only features(Scouts 15, SCV 14 come to mind) times are changing again.

This change will upset many people but it's a welcome change, Cadets have been using French horns since 2013 and it works well, so why not add another instrument to the equation.

I just feel like most people dislike change and would rather see the activity not evolve. It has evolved in 10 years, it will again.

I'd say it's just a vocal few on here that are very adamant about not like liking said change.

At shows and talking to a lot of my friends that are also fans as well as people who I know that have marched from Open Class to Champion, are okay with it and don't really have a problem. The silent majority seem to not mind it, just maybe the vocal minority on here that are against it.

[BRASSO]

If we polled all the marchers from the 70's, 80's that marched DCI Drum Corps, the overwhelming majority would be opposed to the use of trombones by Corps in DCI. However, they'd be no reason to poll them on this, as the overwhelming majority of them have left following the activity for a myriad of changes that have taken place since they marched and are not to their liking. That said, of course, the majority of the current fan base supports the use of conventional Marching Band instruments in DCI. I don't sense that the use of trombones will get many people upset at all. Thats because the ones that might be vocal have not been to a show in years and years, and thus no longer care what DCI does anymore. The current DCI fan base is mostly made up of people from the Marching Band realm. The fact then that the majority of the current DCI fanbase aporoves of the use of conventional Marching Band instruments is thus no surprise to anyone, except perhaps to a few people on here. The notion then that they'll be a large and vocal outcry this summer when more of these units use the Trombone, is not an assessment shared by me at all.

Edited April 27, 2016 by BRASSO

[Tobias]

I reluctantly move forward with the changes. Cadets 2015 French Horn feature was stunning but that brass line could really do no wrong so I think trombones if featured properly, can add a nice dimension to the sound especially with stellar brass lines like Cadets, Crown and BD.

[cixelsyd]

For sure: there was definitely an adjustment period or whatnot.

Must have been a "whatnot", then... because no adjustment period should have been required. We were told that players were accustomed to Bb/F instruments year round, and that in fact, it was the G hornlines that needed the adjustment period - annually.

But I think one would have a hard time mounting an argument that 2015 DCI brass lines, top-to-bottom, sound worse than, say, 1978 brass lines top-to-bottom. The best-of-the-best have sounded great always, but I think the middle & lower achieving groups sound way better now than they used to: may not as loud as they did on G brass, but more in tune with a better characteristic ensemble sound.

No argument there, considering that back in 1978, corps were using one piston/one rotor, with the option of switching sopranos and baritones to the newest innovation, two-piston bugles. Plus, all the talent/teaching/experience/time/environment factors are even more exaggerated when you look further into the past.

True, these are all good points: there are a plethora of reasons why groups are great - not JUST because of equipment. But I think it is unwise, if not flat-out wrong, to discount the equipment (just like front ensemble keyboards sound significantly better now than in the 70s or 80s because of talent level auditioning, instruction, mics/amps, etc. but ALSO because of better implements being used)

Yes, the equipment matters. Still does today. But in the time frame of the transition from G to Bb/F, differences in talent, teaching, experience, practice time and environment had a greater effect than the differences between Bb/F instruments and the "bugles" of that time, which had evolved to where in many cases they were essentially the same horns with some extra tubing to change the key.

[CrownBariDad]

Did we ever get this worked up over playing a soprano solo on flugel just to add a different sound color?

(Yeah, I know -- valves versus slide.)

[flammaster]

Trombones are puny-sounding instruments compared to baritones, and as solo instruments they can't be used without microphones. That's what I've noticed. It's just as well they can't be used while marching because the sound wouldn't carry across the field. If a solo instrument has to be amplified to be heard, then what is the argument for keeping woodwinds out of drum corps?

I got news for you. BD doesn't sound puny at all! From what I heard back in February they sound really big and loud. They have an amazing hornline this year. I will be going this weekend to check it out some more.

[MikeN]

We've come a long way when trombones are the biggest problem DCI has to face.

It's not - it's just the low-hanging fruit to talk about, sadly.

Mike