Timing Hornlines

[D41145]

No one ever says how much the woodwinds play......... Oh wait

[N.E. Brigand]

idk if anyone cares, but this seems like a good a place as any to say it, but I've now listened to every DCI finalist show ever! That doesn't mean much by itself, but I'm proud of it. :)

That's a good start. Now listen to them all again, but grouped by corps. Then do it again, but grouped by primary composer.

Then for your next project, listen to at least two different interpretations of the source music (excepting music original to drum corps, obviously.)

After that, read and/or watch every book, play, or film that served as a conceptual basis for the themed shows of the past twenty years or so.

Then you'll be ready to dive into the secondary literature.

[N.E. Brigand]

I understand that drum corps interprets specific music, but is there an obligation to perform it as true to the original intent as possible?

Not an obligation, no.

However, when a piece gets cut to shreds by a corps, it does seem like the arranger never cared for it very much in the first place.

And we've heard from time to time that some composers were not pleased with how their work was arranged for the field.

(But sometimes what you or I might find to be a better adaptation is one that is most despised by the original composer.)

[N.E. Brigand]

You are right, this activity is called Drum AND Bugle Corps, not Drum OR Bugle Corps.

[...]

At the end of the day, musicality is an issue today, and I don't know how any could think ANYTHING on the field today compares with '89 Regiment, or a handful of other shows from those days where hotlines actually played for most of the show.

You put it a bit more harshly than I would, but I am largely in agreement.

[N.E. Brigand]

This is absolutely false, and your wanting 10 minutes or more out of brass lines is completely WRONG. When did a brass line EVER play for 10 minutes in an 11.5 minute show? Even from 1972 to 1982 I doubt this was the case, and in those days the pit had less contribution to the show.

Well, from some preliminary numbers in this thread, it seems that while probably no brass line ever played 10 minutes, in the late 80s-early 90s, they were regularly playing more than even Crown does this year.

And the reason that some people are taking umbrage to the change is that, even today, the melody and harmony are the most accessible part of a musical composition, and the battery is almost never going to be able to carry those, while giving too much of it to the non-moving pit in an activity whose raison d'être is motion can seem rather perverse.

And I should note that counting things as noahsigs did in this thread's initial post is a perfectly commonplace technique of artistic criticism. It's rarely the conclusion of such investigations, but it can be a very useful starting point.

How many people before seeing these numbers actually realized that many corps brasslines today are playing only 70% or less what they did 25 years ago? (There are probably even some judges who don't know that.) Now that we know, we can have an interesting discussion about it like this one.

Edited August 1, 2016 by N.E. Brigand

[Lance]

45 min 12 secs playing time straight

Edited August 1, 2016 by Lance

[cfirwin3]

I would accept explanation this if the horns played as much as the pit.

Why?

Why does arbitrary 'time' matter more than musical function?

[cfirwin3]

Ah, I think there's a valid argument to be made that the non-marching members of "marching music's major league" ought in fact to be less prominent. The whole point of drum corps (and marching bands) is that the musicians move.

That is to say: the front ensemble will never be an "equal player" until they spend most of their time out on the field.

That said, I suppose a counter-argument is that the pit needs to play more to make up for not having the responsibility of marching.

You are inventing rules where none exist... and probably shouldn't.

[garfield]

Ah, I think there's a valid argument to be made that the non-marching members of "marching music's major league" ought in fact to be less prominent. The whole point of drum corps (and marching bands) is that the musicians move.

That is to say: the front ensemble will never be an "equal player" until they spend most of their time out on the field.

That said, I suppose a counter-argument is that the pit needs to play more to make up for not having the responsibility of marching.

You are inventing rules where none exist... and probably shouldn't.

I think this is actually the case. The pit doesn't get winded (or AS winded) as members who march so it provides the opportunity to showcase the unit throughout the entire show.

Irwin: it's not a rule per se, but I agree with N.E. that it is an expectation that music and motion is the basis of the activity.

I would counter that the pit's motion is less strenuous, but anyone who doubts the quality of the contribution, whether winded or not, need only listen to the EXTRAORDINARY writing and execution musicality of the SCV front ensemble this year for proof that their "movement" is in their hands and arms, they play melody, harmony, and everything in between both promotional and counteractive to both the horn line and battery.

Ensemble's like this year's SCV pit get a COMPLETE pass for not marching so long as the movement they do have (mostly upper body) provides such gorgeous contributions to the programs.

This anger at pit, or battery, or guard, or whomever by the time-counting brass section fans REALLY needs to stop and be refocused on the contributions to the total package that is judged by each section. The batteries have TONS of talent to showcase that was simply not there decades ago (both writing and execution talent), guards have made HUGE advancements, front ensembles have matured into playing the entire range of timbre and style. Show design has evolved beyond just the horns blowing for the majority of the allotted time, exactly as they should have.

IMO, anyway.

Edited August 1, 2016 by garfield

[Mello Dude]

I think this is actually the case. The pit doesn't get winded (or AS winded) as members who march so it provides the opportunity to showcase the unit throughout the entire show.

Irwin: it's not a rule per se, but I agree with N.E. that it is an expectation that music and motion is the basis of the activity.

I would counter that the pit's motion is less strenuous, but anyone who doubts the quality of the contribution, whether winded or not, need only listen to the EXTRAORDINARY writing and execution musicality of the SCV front ensemble this year for proof that their "movement" is in their hands and arms, they play melody, harmony, and everything in between both promotional and counteractive to both the horn line and battery.

Ensemble's like this year's SCV pit get a COMPLETE pass for not marching so long as the movement they do have (mostly upper body) provides such gorgeous contributions to the programs.

This anger at pit, or battery, or guard, or whomever by the time-counting brass section fans REALLY needs to stop and be refocused on the contributions to the total package that is judged by each section. The batteries have TONS of talent to showcase that was simply not there decades ago (both writing and execution talent), guards have made HUGE advancements, front ensembles have matured into playing the entire range of timbre and style. Show design has evolved beyond just the horns blowing for the majority of the allotted time, exactly as they should have.

IMO, anyway.

Here's the rub, if a majority section of the corps isn't pulling it's weight as an equal member of the ensemble music program as a "package" it's something that should be considered. Percussion as far as I know has always been showcased in shows. Hell it's front and center on the football field when it doesn't really need to be anymore. Simply because show design has sacrificed music to visual although it is indeed an evolution but at what price and is it really better from a musical standpoint? Of course this is all subject to opinion but unless corps start doing more original compositions the originals are being butchered for the sake of visual...and IMHO that should never be the case. If I were to think of one instance, that is memorable, of the pit being completely integrated into the show I would point to 2007 Regiment opener I think 1000 Airplanes on the roof I believe. I still enjoy everything mind you.