Cadets 2017

[FuriousSoundbyte]

I'd say within five years.

People have been saying "within five years" for the past decade.

[BRASSO]

You are quite right on all accounts BUT the question would be IF not for the change would we even have an activity today?

Its a fair question to ask... one that nobody knows. Lots of amateur youth sports, despite practically little to no changes the last 50 years, have grown... both in tv exposure, teams, participants, attendance, fan base, etc. I realize that Drum Corps is not totally like amateur sports. But there are many similarities too.

Some of the biggest music acts, at the largest arenas, biggest audiences, etc are musical groups playing the exact same songs they did 20,30,40,... 50 years ago, ..only to a newer, younger generation that is unfamilar with them. I'm not saying Drum Corps should be like 20- 50 years ago here. I'm only responding that some things are valued, despite not changing at all. Van Gogh, Emily Dickinson, etc have centuries of unchanged works valued MORE today by younger, newer generations, than even many of the works of Art and Literature of today in many cases. Classic Cars, Classic Antiques, Classic Furniture, etc... valued today more than 50 years ago... by younger, newer clientele, not particularly embued with the " mod " look of today. What Music are Corps playing in DCI today ? All new ? think again. Compositions written years ago.... again, mostly Music compositions unchanged too. Symphony Orchestra's still tend to look the same to me... same instrumentations... same seatings by the performers... same dress.... etc.. not much changed in 50 years years here, for the most part either. Drum Corps, by contrast, has " changed " more than any activity one could possibly think of, imo. Yet, we are reminded daily on how " change happens "... as if somebody, somewhere thinks Drum Corps is still like the Beachboys of the 1962 & 2016, or Jimmy Buffett of 1972, 2016, Stones of 1966, 2016,.etc and dozens of other musicians, groups, etc.. the list goes on and on..... mostly unchanged from 25- 50 years ago, but larger in appeal now with audiences than even 25- 50 years ago, despite being almost completely devoid of any changes at all during these last 25- 50 years.. Just sayin'.

Edited August 18, 2016 by BRASSO

[Ghost]

People have been saying "within five years" for the past decade.

So, if it happens within five years and you back date BRASSO's guestimate that decade, we're both right!

[Fred Windish]

Wonderful discussion going on here today! Although, to appreciate it, one needs to be of advanced (?) age. Today's performers are sure to lament "Hey, remember when we played these things with just brass and percussion?"

[MikeRapp]

I agree. And in 10-15 years, when the clarinets, saxophones, flutes, etc come in, nobody will care a wit what today's under 40's will think when they are over 40 then and wonder why DCI marching bands economically felt compelled to merge with the BOA. We should be able by now to see where this is all headed. But will it lead to more national exposure via TV ? heck no... not a chance. If there was, the networks and their advertisers would have been interested in BOA/ WGI years ago. Drum Corps has changed so much now over years, that it can't find a TV station among the kazillion out there interested in its offerings. So its product is now sold via pay per view in a theatre or in a home den to its small niche devotees. Change absolutely happens. And there are consequences to those changes too. DCI units are bigger, stronger, better budgeted, have lots of talent, etc but the activities exposure, fan base, attendance, etc is far less than it was in 1980. Why is that ? Well, the changes turned off so many former fans and alums that they walked. Those fans were replaced by newer fans, but at nowhere near the replacement levels of the lost fans. Now DCI can't afford full judging panels. It has Drum & Bugle Corps shows now reduced by budget constraints to many shows now judged in more than half the season with no drum judge... no brass judge... no guard judge... or some combination loss of these. Do people here think that is acceptable now as a beneficial " change " ? Really ? Explain to us, how so. I'd be all ears. Say what we will about the lost " tradition " of having full judge panels at all shows, but it was once unthinkable to have marchers compete in competition with no drum judge... no brass judge... no guard judge. Change happens ? You bet. Has the change been good ? Thats surely open to much discussion, debate. And many of those who would want to be in that discussion, are long, long gone now.

Brasso, I appreciate your perspectives and comments, as always.

That said, if you believe the reason attendance and popularity is what it is because corps don't widely march in military styled uniforms anymore, sorry, don't buy it. If anything, had the Blue Devils and Cadets not pushed for fundamental changes in shows a decade or so ago, DCI might well not exist at all today.

There is a very obvious, very real other factor at play here: The Internet, which has led to on demand media.

DCI is far from the only live activity that has been (and will continue to be) dramatically impacted by the on-demand reality of media. Attendance is down for all, ALL, live events, of all types, everywhere in the modern world. People want to watch stuff on demand, anywhere they are, preferably in their homes. NFL, MLB, NBA, even concert attendance is down DRAMATICALLY since the dawn of the internet. The fragmentation of media has made it possible for DCI to live stream events via subscription, and have a reality TV show producing a series for cable on their dime.

NASCAR can't even get on regular TV anymore, and we're crying about drum corps being relegated to PPV? Please!

Times are changing. I for one don't care for all of the changes happening in drum corps, but I am 100% sure that if DCI doesn't push the envelope kids will simply watch some video on YouTube while playing Pokemon Go. Kids don't NEED Drum Corps.

Edited August 18, 2016 by MikeRapp

[MikeRapp]

DCI has already gone this route and asked these questions; many, many units went belly-up because they didn't have the financing to be able to keep up with the constant change which only makes the manufacturers rich at the expense of the corps.

Well, no corps went under because they had to buy new uniforms. They went under because they were poorly managed. If they were managed at all.

[xandandl]

Well, no corps went under because they had to buy new uniforms. They went under because they were poorly managed. If they were managed at all.

of course.

I reference the mounting pressures on said management.

Like electronix, something become de rigeur whether they are legislated or not. The skyscrapers that drum majors stand upon to conduct is another example.

[MikeRapp]

of course.

I reference the mounting pressures on said management.

Like electronix, something become de rigeur whether they are legislated or not. The skyscrapers that drum majors stand upon to conduct is another example.

I brought this up earlier this season, so I definitely am concerned.

That said, I think the only reasonable solution is that DCI has to marshall their power as an organization on behalf of its members to help lower costs common to all corps. In my limited experience, there seems to be at least as much feeling of "indebtedness" to the long term sponsors' well being as there is for the corps, and that leads to solutions that don't really help either party. (Well, if we mandated that all corps use this uniform supplier, all these other uniform suppliers would be upset...and of course, no longer sponsor our events.)

And of course, the ultimate solution is to make the pie larger. Which can only be done by creating an environment where the activity can be more creative and more appealing to increasingly more fans.

[xandandl]

I think that DCI is doing that in quiet ways perhaps not obvious to the fan base.

For instance, I noticed that five different corps were using the same charter bus company from the middle of America. Cadets and Phantom Regiment were two. For the last few years, Cadets and Blue Coats used the same charter company. I presume the corps are jointly putting tours to bid or at least corps are communicating when they find a bargain deal from a reliable vendor. Perhaps vendors are also getting tour savvy.

YEA and G-7/8 were partly attempts to band together although both approaches had major philosophical and practical aspects which raised concern.

But the joint bidding for commonalities such as food, transportation, housing, and inventory would be helpful to all.

[GUARDLING]

And the corresponding question has to be are the changes taxing the corps out of existence??? [

as corps now need a third tractor trailer for props, a professional sound engineer on staff, a gymnastics coach, make-up artists and inventory, multiple physical trainers (anyone in the lot saw how many Bluecoats after their performances had to have their shoulders treated from the hanging and sliding,) as well as the lawyers on hand to check the licensing royalties for every book change and hosing done by the faculty and show designers. Now after The Wink, we may even have to agents and personnel reps.]

I think this is for the individual corps to decide