Liahona Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 50 minutes ago, Polonius said: jazz bands in concert halls - sure mic who ever needs to be mic'd rock concerts at large stadiums - sure - makes sense but for a brass ensembles on a football field with limited speaker setups -- ? I just think it's not going to sound as good -- it would be one thing if the brass ensemble were always indoors and not moving -- but mic'ing moving musicians through a relatively small sound system -- you're just not going to get a nice blend -- it's not going to sound as good as just a hornline playing and blending and listening to one another -- We might as well just stand on the concourse at the stadium eating a hot dog and watch a big screen TV and listen through the stadium speakers.... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Lead said: There are (extremely highly competitive) high school bands with large hornlines who are micing the top two players in each section and putting that into the main mix. I think it should be done away with, but this seems like it clearly has its impetus in that style of performance. I stood in front of a corps the other night and knew exactly what I was hearing - the best players wearing mics and produced through the mix for the entire show. Attention field judge...stay away from players that are amp'd/mic'd...you know where to LQQK/Listen now ...haha Edited July 18, 2017 by Liahona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Liahona said: We might as well just stand on the concourse at the stadium eating a hot dog and watch a big screen TV and listen through the stadium speakers.... nah, the newcrew will probably tell us that the hot dawg is bad for us unless it's completely soy from Indiana and vegetable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdValvesAreForWimps Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 The price of electronics and associated engineering services has put many corps out of business. How many world class corps are there now? Maybe 25? Even thirty years ago there were more than 50 and back further there were hundreds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 My advice is this (to the OP and others): I think a good letter or two or several hundred to DCI is never a bad thing. It doesn't hurt to express your feelings on this subject. I personally do not like seeing an entire brass line amplified. Most of the time that I hear any sort of mic'd brass or battery percussion the sound get tinty and bright. Very metallic. And in most cases it's overkill. Like anyone, I will give some things a chance. My head tells me this will not become a trend. I believe solos will continue to be mic'd, but I just don't see what the endgame is for an entire brass line, partial line, or large section to play into mics. In regards to what Bluecoats are doing, they only mic the brass line for 20 seconds or so. It's basically an effect to throw the sound to the other side of the field while the brass is faced backfield in the opposite direction. Now, personally I would prefer they just let the backfield echo suffice. But I get that there is this effect they wish to achieve, and it is cool when they nail it. I'm not wild about what SCV is doing. That just feels more like cheating to me, and I know it's not. It's also an effect where they can bring certain voices to the front of the balance when needed. Has the drum corps audience gone deaf and it has become imperative for the corps to play even louder and use mics when needed? As much as I do not care for it, I think it will be tough for the corps directors and DCI to come up with a rule that says something to the effect of only solos can be mic'd. I think they feel they would be limiting the creativity of their designers and would rather leave all options on the table. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCWVUFAN Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, ThirdValvesAreForWimps said: The price of electronics and associated engineering services has put many corps out of business. How many world class corps are there now? Maybe 25? Even thirty years ago there were more than 50 and back further there were hundreds. I'm pretty sure the bulk of the drum corps folding in the past thirty years wasn't due to electronics, most were long gone before electronics came into play. Insurance and travel expenses probably played more of a roll. Membership in more regional corps played a part as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terri Schehr Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, jwillis35 said: My advice is this (to the OP and others): I think a good letter or two or several hundred to DCI is never a bad thing. It doesn't hurt to express your feelings on this subject. I personally do not like seeing an entire brass line amplified. Most of the time that I hear any sort of mic'd brass or battery percussion the sound get tinty and bright. Very metallic. And in most cases it's overkill. Like anyone, I will give some things a chance. My head tells me this will not become a trend. I believe solos will continue to be mic'd, but I just don't see what the endgame is for an entire brass line, partial line, or large section to play into mics. In regards to what Bluecoats are doing, they only mic the brass line for 20 seconds or so. It's basically an effect to throw the sound to the other side of the field while the brass is faced backfield in the opposite direction. Now, personally I would prefer they just let the backfield echo suffice. But I get that there is this effect they wish to achieve, and it is cool when they nail it. I'm not wild about what SCV is doing. That just feels more like cheating to me, and I know it's not. It's also an effect where they can bring certain voices to the front of the balance when needed. Has the drum corps audience gone deaf and it has become imperative for the corps to play even louder and use mics when needed? As much as I do not care for it, I think it will be tough for the corps directors and DCI to come up with a rule that says something to the effect of only solos can be mic'd. I think they feel they would be limiting the creativity of their designers and would rather leave all options on the table. I roll with these changes pretty well for an old folk. This one has me a little worried. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Terri Schehr said: I roll with these changes pretty well for an old folk. This one has me a little worried. especially when it currently involves corps traditionally known for their strong musical programs, SCV, Phantom, Bloo. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, xandandl said: especially when it currently involves corps traditionally known for their strong musical programs, SCV, Phantom, Bloo. the designers are bored 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Mic'ed large brass ensembles and/ or entire sections naturally gives a distorted sound up to the booth that then enters the ear canal of the judge, then to their brain to ascertain what they think of it. Judges in the booth are being asked to compare and contrast ensembles where the sound is coming to their ear canals naturally, with other sounds from brass lines that are entering their ear canal in an artificial manner.. ie, filtered thru a speaker system that is DISTORTING the natural sound of brass sound thru an amplified, electronically engineered device. Now, I do accept that judges are trained, experienced professionals, very adept in their craft. I accept that they are fair and honest and do try to get the evaluations correct. That said, we are now reaching the critical mass stage in the activity where we ( and the Corps) are asking the judges to do the humanly impossible now, imo. A brass sound is automatically altered when it is " washed " thru a sound system. We know the difference too. Just look at the difference we all here have heard when we have music come thru a cheap sound system and one that has all the engineering technical enhancements to make the sound so much, much better. So we all know here the sound changes when it comes thru an amplified engineering device. Now... when a brass line is not filtered thru a amplified sound device system that sound is different. It just is. So we now have judges comparing brass ensembles where one sound is natural ( may be pretty good ) with a brass line that may be subpar by comparison being amplified thru a sound system that not only can make that brass sound louder, but the device can actually enhance that sound that reaches the judges in the booth. So now the judge can honestly find the brass line that was filtered thru and enhanced by the engineering to be " better " as it enters their ear canal than the sound that was natural and unfilitered from the distant field that entered their ear canal. If judges are going to be rewarding Corps with stronger engineering sections than brass sections in their Corps preparations for competitions, then we will see smaller brass lines in the coming years, as the next evolutionary stage, imo. Engineers have the technology today... right now... to make a 42 member brass line sound like 76, if they are allowed to not only amplify the sound, but to enhance it, and make it sound " better " to the ear than A 72 member brass line that is playing naturally, and not synthetically produced. I pity the judges now. I would not want their job. Its an impossible task we are asking of them, once we begin the process of altering sounds thru engineering manipulations. Edited July 18, 2017 by BRASSO 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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