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DrumManTx

The Legends REALLY Need Our Help!!!

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1 minute ago, Tim K said:

Before we jump to conclusions about management, whether kids are in danger, etc., there is a great deal we do not know. We also need to remember most non profits such as schools, churches, youth organizations are often only two or three months away from serious financial issues. Also before we bring up Teal Sound, Glassmen, and other corps that folded due to finances, not all financial troubles are the same, and some that folded had financial issues but there were practices that had nothing to do with finances that made me wonder if the financial woes were the cause or a symptom. 

I do think Legends is a worthy organization. I don't think they will reach the goal, but if they can at least raise some, between 25-50% there might be a possibility that they may be able to work things out with creditors which is a huge maybe, but even if they raise the funds, they need to take a serious look at fundraising, budgeting, and the like. A video such as this, even if it is successful, is a one shot deal.

All very true, and I think we are all keeping these things in mind. It doesn't hurt that there is some pessimism. None of us are saying admin is at fault or this could have been avoided, but we have seen this kind of disaster before and it has not ended well for some corps. I love Legends. I want was is best for them. 

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Hopefully, they need $50K and are asking for $100K. 

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39 minutes ago, Cainan said:

...I appreciate that all the corps are individually run, and that DCI is a facilitating body for marketing and contests, but DCI SHOULD and DOES have say over who attends their shows. DCI SHOULD be looking at corps finances BEFORE they finalise the schedules.

I am pretty sure DCI looks at finances with WC corps. I believe there was a change years ago with DCI policy on this. Not sure about OC corps.  The Troopers were essentially suspended for 1 year for financial issues during a tour.  Whatever the reasons are for Legends, I do believe they will have to be transparent about what really happened as they raise emergency funds at this point.  

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1 hour ago, WaxDCIFan said:

Sure.  Not too long ago, top 25 corps were given the option to move up to Division 1 just based on making top 25.  That's how most of the current WC corps got there.  They didn't have to go through the current process.

Legends has been in semis both of the last two years, perhaps longer (I'd have to look that up).

I can tell you for a fact that OC corps have a much harder time getting corporate sponsorships, getting better rates from vendors etc.  Some of them are willing to extend a financial olive branch to WC corps because of the increased visibility, but they don't do the same for the OC corps.  Even groceries are cheaper for a lot of the WC corps.  Large OC corps trying to national tours and "win open class" are under tremendous financial pressure.

 

Thanks for clarifying your understanding, but I was looking for your point.  Are you saying that Legends could have and/or should have made the jump to WC, or are you saying that it's the DCI system that's at fault because it requires corps to demonstrate a WC tour?

I'm sorry I'm so dense, but I can't figure out what your description of Div II, III, and A60 has to do with Legends today.

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1 hour ago, garfield said:

Did I miss something?  Didn't Ibe appeal state pretty clearly that his current situation is the result of exogenous events that all occurred coincidentally and forced this situation?  Is it really a fair assessment to say that a corps with an, otherwise, functioning piece of kitchen equipment was negligent in leaving before they had a financial contingency for each piece of equipment they haul?

I think you're making presumptions about the decision process used to start the tour.  While several here voice appreciation of the director's decision to make the appeal prior to sending them home (what we wish had occurred in your prior examples), you want to condemn the "adults" for deciding to go on tour without reasonable contingencies, and you don't know that to be what actually occurred.

You do realize that, to attain your goal of not being caught short, a drum corps needs to have, essentially, a replacement fund for every piece of equipment.  

Poignantly, I would encourage all to be restrained and judicious in what you say and post here, especially if you are not willing to attach your credentialled CV to justify your recommendations (and even then, maybe more-so).  Let's be adults and not speculate, and let's give the org the room to be successful by not pummelling them when their down.

There's nothing that any of the wizards of smart here can say that will be any more instructive to the "adults" running Legends than the real-life pain they are experiencing right now.  One may feel that lesson is necessary, but that doesn't grant license to pile on with a bunch of Know-It-All-But-Done-Very-Little advice.

My $.02

Skip all the second guessing b/s and personal horn blowing and send them $ 50.00 bucks

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OK - I truly think that it's important to separate the two issues - that way both the current financial urgency can be addressed, and the long-term solvency of the corps as a whole can be dealt with afterwards.

First - I have known Ibe for about 10 years and I have never questioned his dedication to the kids, or the organization.  While there have been previous organizations who have made a similar plea (only to have it turn out to be b.s.), Ibe is not the sort of person who would put out a distress call unless it was truly an emergency.

Also, the paramount issue at hand is making sure those kids are taken care of...and, right now, letting them complete their season is at the top of the list.  Why?  Because they have put everything they've got into the corps...and to have it cut short with nowhere to go at this late juncture just isn't fair to them.

As for the other issue - this can, and should be, addressed after the season. The organization will need to review what happened, determine how or if it could have been prevented, and determine whether they can recover...or cease operations.

That's my $.02

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I actually thought that Legends was on a slow and steady path to Division 1; taking their time and gradually building, just any corps should. Whatever the reasoning for their financial issues, they will not be the same corps they are now if they survive this. The good: They will still be a functioning organization. Lessons and learning will help those still involved make decisions to keep the ship afloat and ongoing. The bad: Unless the membership is 100% trusting of the leadership and decisions, they will be fielding a much smaller corps next year. The talent, staff included, will surely depart. Being that it's getting to be the home stretch, pulling the plug on the rest of season will probably put the dirt blanket on Lengends.

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1 hour ago, garfield said:

Did I miss something?  Didn't Ibe appeal state pretty clearly that his current situation is the result of exogenous events that all occurred coincidentally and forced this situation?  Is it really a fair assessment to say that a corps with an, otherwise, functioning piece of kitchen equipment was negligent in leaving before they had a financial contingency for each piece of equipment they haul?

I think you're making presumptions about the decision process used to start the tour.  While several here voice appreciation of the director's decision to make the appeal prior to sending them home (what we wish had occurred in your prior examples), you want to condemn the "adults" for deciding to go on tour without reasonable contingencies, and you don't know that to be what actually occurred.

You do realize that, to attain your goal of not being caught short, a drum corps needs to have, essentially, a replacement fund for every piece of equipment.  

Poignantly, I would encourage all to be restrained and judicious in what you say and post here, especially if you are not willing to attach your credentialled CV to justify your recommendations (and even then, maybe more-so).  Let's be adults and not speculate, and let's give the org the room to be successful by not pummelling them when their down.

There's nothing that any of the wizards of smart here can say that will be any more instructive to the "adults" running Legends than the real-life pain they are experiencing right now.  One may feel that lesson is necessary, but that doesn't grant license to pile on with a bunch of Know-It-All-But-Done-Very-Little advice.

My $.02

Here are the direct quotes, in order that they appear in the video, in which I based my conclusions, and please read through all of them:

“I am in desperate need of your help.” (ok, desperate; so how did that desperation materialize?)

“I have had some pretty serious setbacks this year with trying to raise enough funds to make it all work”. (the setbacks were in raising the funds throughout the year, but let's see if the problems were one of an immediate emergency and were the result of immediate exogenous events that all occurred coincidentally ).

“”Try to make the goal of $100,000 in the next 24 hours.” (Either a traumatic immediate occurrence has just occurred, or he has known this was coming for quite a while; let's continue)

“We have had to endure getting some new trailers and replace appliances on our food truck.” (did this occur as emergency situations out on tour or did they replace these prior to the tour season?; let's continue).

“My car is no longer on the road while I try and make a repair happen.” (ok, now this event may be an unexpected event, but we need more info).

“And over the course of the season we have been starting behind the eight ball to make it all work for the high level of growth.” (oops, first actual indication that they were trying to maintain the growth, and this has been brewing well beforehand, and not an immediate emergency)

“Maybe you can contribute to the campaigns that have been live the past month.” (oops again, an admission that this has been going on since before the start of the tour)

“The alternative is to stop it all, which I know is not an option.” (big oops, he knew they were in dire straits over a month ago; and stopping or delaying tour by him because they were in the red was not an option!)

“I believe heavily in what this activity does for the youth.” along with a number of emotional appeals that it are all based on the phrase, 'the experience for the kids' (while we all believe in what this activity is for, this is yet another very nice guy making the claim for why he allowed this financial crissis to happen: that it was for the kids; which is the same phrase used by all corps directors in the past who had also placed their corps into the same financial trouble)

“I don’t let people know how bad it really is.” (Oh My!!!  This is one of the best kicker statements that lead me to my conclusion)

“So thank you for taking the time to listen to my emotions.” (I get the emotions, I am human and I have them also, but a business is not ran on emotions; and this situation is an example as to why)

“So a heartfelt message through this cash flow crisis.” (Ding, Ding, Ding, the crisis is not an immediate emergency trailer, appliance breakdown issue; it is an Ongoing Cash Flow issue; that according to his previous statements has been an ongoing problem before they even hit the road at the start of the season!!!!).

Thus the reasons I came to my conclusions.

Edited by Stu

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17 minutes ago, garfield said:

Thanks for clarifying your understanding, but I was looking for your point.  Are you saying that Legends could have and/or should have made the jump to WC, or are you saying that it's the DCI system that's at fault because it requires corps to demonstrate a WC tour?

I'm sorry I'm so dense, but I can't figure out what your description of Div II, III, and A60 has to do with Legends today.

I'm sure you aren't being dense, I'm just not communicating well.  I can tell you, from watching it play out with Genesis, that the process of moving from OC to WC puts these organizations under a lot of financial pressure that many don't appreciate.

On the historical point, all I was trying to suggest is that not that long ago Legends would already be a WC corps by virtue of their competitive success.  The current vetting process (even with its useful financial scrutiny) was created by the existing WC corps mostly to create a barrier to entry and minimize competition for gate $$.  A corps like Legends might have benefited from the old system, IMHO.

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53 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

...None of us are saying admin is at fault or this could have been avoided, but we have seen this kind of disaster before and it has not ended well for some corps.

If you listen to his plea carefully it is not a disaster brought on by immediate catastrophes, this has been a cash flow issue for quite a while and they went out on the road in the red!  So, I am saying admin is at fault.

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