2000Cadet Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 22 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said: 1999 was the great year. 2000 was the year that sucked. Joking, of course. Your 1999 show further illustrates my point. The design wasn't as good as Cadets shows normally are, and placement suffered as a result. Was the 1999 corps less talented than the 1998 or 2000 corps? I don't know, but the 1999 design certainly didn't help you. 2000, on the other hand, must have been such a fun year to march. I could watch that show endlessly. Masterpiece. I thought my rookie year in Crossmen was terrible; 1999 Cadets took the cake. I had come onto tour late because I graduated high school later than most schools, so I only went to spring training on weekends, and then met the corps on tour. I got there and it felt like World War III for most of the season. I almost didn't go back in 2000 because of 1999. 16 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said: I agree that weighing the level of talent is subjective, but BAC barely made finals in 2016 and Cadets were 6th (and in gold medal contention one year prior) so unless BAC had almost an entirely new membership in 2017, I don't see how they could have been as talented as the Cadets. But, you're right, there's really no way to weigh that. Whether or not they had the same talent level, less, or more, they certainly had the superior design (on all levels), so that was really the boost to beating the Cadets last year. Cadets lost their horn caption head as well as their drum caption head to Boston, so that may also have a lot to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ediker Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 33 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said: I agree that weighing the level of talent is subjective, but BAC barely made finals in 2016 and Cadets were 6th (and in gold medal contention one year prior) so unless BAC had almost an entirely new membership in 2017, I don't see how they could have been as talented as the Cadets. But, you're right, there's really no way to weigh that. Whether or not they had the same talent level, less, or more, they certainly had the superior design (on all levels), so that was really the boost to beating the Cadets last year. Cadets may have had an edge in raw talent in brass/percussion in 2017. The overlord's hyper focus on design over delivery prevented the show from "clicking" early enough to gain traction. Boston was polishing while Cadets were rewriting. The program stability allowed Boston to reach higher levels of achievement by season's end. Predictions for this season need to be adjusted due to the recent changes at YEA. Things might be a mess in the back offices but, on the field, the changes might prove to be a net positive. The end of the downward trend is in sight. We're all waiting to see how Cadets come out of the gate this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 22 minutes ago, Ediker said: Cadets may have had an edge in raw talent in brass/percussion in 2017. The overlord's hyper focus on design over delivery prevented the show from "clicking" early enough to gain traction. Boston was polishing while Cadets were rewriting. The program stability allowed Boston to reach higher levels of achievement by season's end. Predictions for this season need to be adjusted due to the recent changes at YEA. Things might be a mess in the back offices but, on the field, the changes might prove to be a net positive. The end of the downward trend is in sight. We're all waiting to see how Cadets come out of the gate this summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 The problem the cadets will have this season will likely have to do with design rather than execution, regardless of who is running the organization, and this will be my opinion until they prove to me otherwise. It's always design. In fact, shows are judged more on design than anything. A good design will bring out strengths and hide weaknesses. A bad design will do the opposite. In many respects. Design is always the limiting factor over execution, when it comes to corps in the finalist tier. Not the only factor, the limiting factor. Bluecoats last year placed 5th because of their show design. If all top 12 corps had done the same exact show, there is absolutely no way to know who would have placed where. That's my theory anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, BoyWonder1911 said: The problem the cadets will have this season will likely have to do with design rather than execution, regardless of who is running the organization, and this will be my opinion until they prove to me otherwise. It's always design. In fact, shows are judged more on design than anything. A good design will bring out strengths and hide weaknesses. A bad design will do the opposite. In many respects. Design is always the limiting factor over execution, when it comes to corps in the finalist tier. Not the only factor, the limiting factor. Bluecoats last year placed 5th because of their show design. If all top 12 corps had done the same exact show, there is absolutely no way to know who would have placed where. That's my theory anyway. I agree. However, I think if Madison, or Boston for that matter had the same design as BD, BD would still beat them. I think today design > execution, but when design = design, execution wins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftwdrummer Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 2 hours ago, 2000Cadet said: I thought my rookie year in Crossmen was terrible; 1999 Cadets took the cake. I had come onto tour late because I graduated high school later than most schools, so I only went to spring training on weekends, and then met the corps on tour. I got there and it felt like World War III for most of the season. I almost didn't go back in 2000 because of 1999. Cadets lost their horn caption head as well as their drum caption head to Boston, so that may also have a lot to do with it. FWIW, your rookie year in Crossmen is my favorite Crossmen show of all time. So you've got that going for you. (Possibly related: I was in pit.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, ftwdrummer said: FWIW, your rookie year in Crossmen is my favorite Crossmen show of all time. So you've got that going for you. (Possibly related: I was in pit.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabMaster Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 6 hours ago, queenanne_1536 said: I agree that weighing the level of talent is subjective, but BAC barely made finals in 2016 and Cadets were 6th (and in gold medal contention one year prior) so unless BAC had almost an entirely new membership in 2017, I don't see how they could have been as talented as the Cadets. But, you're right, there's really no way to weigh that. Whether or not they had the same talent level, less, or more, they certainly had the superior design (on all levels), so that was really the boost to beating the Cadets last year. Good lord ease up on the talent argument. Bostons talent was equal to or better than Cadets in 2017. That's taken from sources who know specifically about each situation. In 16 Boston was hindered by show design not being developed or corrected which inhibited full maximization of the talent they had. The talent was there and was unleashed if you will in 17. Cadets were totally inhibited by a person who at one time may have been "brilliant". Or was thought to be. But ego got in the way and the creative talent was choked. IMO. I think you will be very surprised by Boston this year. The show is really really good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barneveld Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, LabMaster said: Good lord ease up on the talent argument. Bostons talent was equal to or better than Cadets in 2017. That's taken from sources who know specifically about each situation. In 16 Boston was hindered by show design not being developed or corrected which inhibited full maximization of the talent they had. The talent was there and was unleashed if you will in 17. Cadets were totally inhibited by a person who at one time may have been "brilliant". Or was thought to be. But ego got in the way and the creative talent was choked. IMO. I think you will be very surprised by Boston this year. The show is really really good. Oh goodness!! You've done it now!! lol Good to see you tonight, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, LabMaster said: Good lord ease up on the talent argument. Bostons talent was equal to or better than Cadets in 2017. That's taken from sources who know specifically about each situation. In 16 Boston was hindered by show design not being developed or corrected which inhibited full maximization of the talent they had. The talent was there and was unleashed if you will in 17. Cadets were totally inhibited by a person who at one time may have been "brilliant". Or was thought to be. But ego got in the way and the creative talent was choked. IMO. I think you will be very surprised by Boston this year. The show is really really good. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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