Riverside, CA - July 1, 2018

[Cappybara]

17 minutes ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:

Okay, here:

Does that help?

I did, and do, find it weird. I did, and do, find it dark. Dark can be legitimate. I'd love the Troopers, of all corps, to come out with a darker, angrier show one of these years, hopefully before I die, please Lord.

And I think I pretty much said the exact same thing you did: People are focusing on the fact the Mandarins have stepped it up, just as they did with Academy two seasons ago. I also made the claim that, because Corps A is doing so much better than Corps A did in a previous season, fans are rightfully enthusiastic, but it does not necessarily follow that Corps A should be beating Corps B, C and D in general effect in the current season.

Nor do I disagree with your observation that over-analyzing a corp's show is too easy a trap to fall into these days. Indeed the days are gone when "four good songs" was enough to get you to finals. But music is still communication. Good communication requires clarity -- clarity of expression, and clarity of reception by the audience. And Mandarins 2018 are not a very clear communicator at the moment, in my opinion.

They play notes in tune. They play them loud. They play them, I assume by the judges' marks, pretty clean. But is it "darn good music" as you say? Well, I can allow that It is pretty well-played music, but compared to other corps on the field in 2018, I would say that to my ear, it's not as musical as others. It's a lot of mood and buildup and BIG HIT and more rumble/mood/atmosphere BIG HIT. I like a big hit as much as the next DCI nut, but I also like a sense of direction (and will throw bouquets at even the slightest scraps of melody), and at the moment Mandarins are, to me, a swirl of loud, well-played, unconnected musical thoughts. At least on the livestream. Sometimes you just gotta be there live to appreciate it, and maybe this is one of those cases.

Brassboy’s comment I quoted below accurately sums up why I brought anything up. 

I do agree that the show is very focused on the big hits, but they’re doing quite a bit more justice to the source music than you seem to be giving them credit for. I think you have to really listen to those soloists to hear the transitions they do from different parts of the source music. While it’s definitely not anything close to a full 3 minute build up of  melody, I definitely found it a good bit more melodic than, say SCV 2017. 

12 minutes ago, brassboy said:

In your first response, I got the impression that you felt people were focusing on Mandarins just because they were better than they've been, as opposed to the fact that they're just a really good corps this year. Subtle difference, I know, but an important one in explaining the hype.

 

[Mega]

4 hours ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:

I'm going to violate the terms of your question, since I wasn't in attendance. My impressions are via livestream, and the most recent stream was Pasadena, not Riverside. But I'll take a stab at it.

Everyone is going OMG! about Mandarins because of where Mandarins have been, not because their 2018 product is stronger than all the competition on the field this year. You saw the same thing with Academy two seasons ago. They were the it corps of 2016 because they finally pushed into contention for a finalist spot, and a lot of fans got super excited about it -- which was fine; we should be super excited about kids achieving new levels of excellence. Same is happening w/ Mandarins this year, imo. They are the it corps of 2018; doesn't mean they are out-achieving everyone else on the field. Note that Troopers narrowed the GE gap with Mandrains slightly between Pasadena and Riverside. So maybe it was just these judges.

BK put its final segment of the show on the field between Stanford and Oceanside. I don't know if they performed it at Oceanside, but they did at the Rose Bowl and at Riverside. So the BK product is more complete than it was in the earlier Calif. shows. Translation: BK has raised its own game. You saw BK open the gap from Mandarins just a tad on Sunday, and my guess is this is early evidence that BK is solidifying the additions of the past week and beginning to achieve them at a higher level. They snatched a visual subcap that Mandarins had won the night before. All of which figures into GE.

I can't judge how clean Mandarins' feets and beats are, and maybe they're really clean. But as far as design goes -- by which my own personal definition is "take me from one place to another place; give me a point-A-to-Point-B experience" -- Mandarins feel kinda one-dimensional. It starts dark, stays dark, and ends dark, even though they tossed in some voiceover to ram home the idea that "no, it's not really dark, see? she came back to life!" The fact that they had to add narration to make that point obvious is a clue, to me, that the performance design isn't communicating well enough. Maybe they'll fix this with something more ogranic than narration. But for now, Mandarins seem like a whole lot of mood and a whole lot of volume, but they don't seem like much of an idea.

Probably best to not violate the terms of the question since you weren't there. I was at the Rose Bowl and for me, I was bored with BK's show. Just because you have pyramids on the field and do the Egyptian arm doesn't make it an Egyptian themed show. It didn't draw me at all.

On the other hand, Mandarins are very cohesive with their theme and actually draw me into the show. Perhaps it's just a matter of preference as everyone has their likes and dislikes. I would say there was a whole lotta of LIKES from the audience after Mandarins' performance. It was that good.

[Herk]

18 minutes ago, Mega said:

Probably best to not violate the terms of the question since you weren't there. I was at the Rose Bowl and for me, I was bored with BK's show. Just because you have pyramids on the field and do the Egyptian arm doesn't make it an Egyptian themed show. It didn't draw me at all.

On the other hand, Mandarins are very cohesive with their theme and actually draw me into the show. Perhaps it's just a matter of preference as everyone has their likes and dislikes. I would say there was a whole lotta of LIKES from the audience after Mandarins' performance. It was that good.

BK's show isn't an "Egyptian themed show".

From their show announcement:

https://ascendperformingarts.org/blue-knights-announce-2018-show-the-fall-and-rise/

Quote

The Egyptian pantheon is known for its beautiful and evocative stories explaining the mysteries of the universe. The Blue Knights are using the most famous of these myths as the inspiration for their 2018 program “The Fall and Rise”. In keeping with their flair for the unexpected, Blue Knights’ program alludes to the journey of the sun god Ra as a springboard to go deeper and explore the invincible human spirit. When faced with the terrifying unknown it is ritual that connects us. When we are in our darkest hours it is hope that keeps us moving forward and above all it is our connection to each other that sustains us until the light returns.

I hope this helps you better understand their show.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Herk

[anacrusis]

1 hours ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:

1 hour ago, Cappybara said:

I mean, you should also put a disclaimer in that your first impression of the show was, as I recall was “this is weird, and dark, and I don’t understand it” and you seem to be very much in the minority with that opinion. 

I think everyone else if focusing on the fact that the Mandarins have really stepped up with the difficulty level of their show and have done it in a package that is just as entertaining and engaging as Academy 2016 was 

There was a time in drum corps where just playing some #### good music and marching clean drill was enough to entertain. Now people focus in way too much on the storyline behind of a show instead of just sitting back and enjoying what’s in front of them

Okay, here:

Does that help?

I did, and do, find it weird. I did, and do, find it dark. Dark can be legitimate. I'd love the Troopers, of all corps, to come out with a darker, angrier show one of these years, hopefully before I die, please Lord.

And I think I pretty much said the exact same thing you did: People are focusing on the fact the Mandarins have stepped it up, just as they did with Academy two seasons ago. I also made the claim that, because Corps A is doing so much better than Corps A did in a previous season, fans are rightfully enthusiastic, but it does not necessarily follow that Corps A should be beating Corps B, C and D in general effect in the current season.

Nor do I disagree with your observation that over-analyzing a corp's show is too easy a trap to fall into these days. Indeed the days are gone when "four good songs" was enough to get you to finals. But music is still communication. Good communication requires clarity -- clarity of expression, and clarity of reception by the audience. And Mandarins 2018 are not a very clear communicator at the moment, in my opinion.

They play notes in tune. They play them loud. They play them, I assume by the judges' marks, pretty clean. But is it "darn good music" as you say? Well, I can allow that It is pretty well-played music, but compared to other corps on the field in 2018, I would say that to my ear, it's not as musical as others. It's a lot of mood and buildup and BIG HIT and more rumble/mood/atmosphere BIG HIT. I like a big hit as much as the next DCI nut, but I also like a sense of direction (and will throw bouquets at even the slightest scraps of melody), and at the moment Mandarins are, to me, a swirl of loud, well-played, unconnected musical thoughts. At least on the livestream. Sometimes you just gotta be there live to appreciate it, and maybe this is one of those cases.

https://www.bl.uk/20th-century-literature/articles/the-riot-at-the-rite-the-premiere-of-the-rite-of-spring

"Looks to me like the Mandarins show is right on target. Genius!"

posted from the DrumScorps app

[PamahoNow]

Well, in addition to the pyramids,  note the following:

The Egyptian pantheon is known for its beautiful and evocative stories explaining the mysteries of the universe. The Blue Knights are using the most famous of these myths as the inspiration for their 2018 program “The Fall and Rise”. In keeping with their flair for the unexpected, Blue Knights’ program alludes to the journey of the sun god Ra as a springboard to go deeper and explore the invincible human spirit. When faced with the terrifying unknown it is ritual that connects us. When we are in our darkest hours it is hope that keeps us moving forward and above all it is our connection to each other that sustains us until the light returns.

Now, it would seem that they are "sort of" about Egypt, its stories, and it's myths, ... and somehow that leads us (and/or our human spirit) to do whatever.  

How is this not about Egypt, it's history, beliefs and how that should teach us something or other.

How well BK does that is what this season is about.  (As well as having a grand time, and providing a great experience to the audience.)

 

 

[queenanne_1536]

5 hours ago, NCWVUFAN said:

I agree, that hornline is incredible and they will get "more deadly" as the season goes on. Only thing is....they don't have that same guard/staff.

Yes, which I think will make it hard for them. I remember someone saying before the season started that their guard was so clean. LOL. Wrong. They aren't clean now.

[flammaster]

Their guard had five rifle drops at Sacramento and they still beat BK. I really liked their show except the singing.

 

[MikeRapp]

One day BK will field a show that has a cohesive and interesting concept that equally uses both music and visuals. That day, alas, remains in the future. In the meantime we will drool over their horn line, snares, and arrangements.

[theonlyfizzle]

With all that i said giving Scv their rightful congratulations... IMHO I still think BD have a better visual and general effect.. stone me, go a head if you will.

[MikeRapp]

4 minutes ago, theonlyfizzle said:

With all that i said giving Scv their rightful congratulations... IMHO I still think BD have a better visual and general effect.. stone me, go a head if you will.

Need to see all the BD visuals on the field, and the Metropolis ending for SCV.