queenanne_1536 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, year1buick said: I respectfully disagree. (And happen to agree with Mello dude.) If you’re only talking about them playing and marching SCV’s show, and nothing more, then I think it wouldn’t have made as large of an impact. But if the staff came along too? BIG difference IMO. (Remember who was there when they last won?) It’s all about design and teaching. Everything else flows from that. From my own time with the corps, ‘92 was arguably the most stacked, talent wise. (I’ve heard multiple corps mates state the same.) But the design was stale and outdated— and our scores ultimately reflected that. Even though we jumped back up to 3rd the following years (sadly, I had to miss out on ‘93), it was more to do with the creative infusion of Tony Hall and Jeff Prosperie (as caption head) than anything else, IMO. Whether or not 1992 Regiment was the most the most talented corps they've ever had, I cannot say. I do agree that design was a big problem for the 1992 Regiment, and a great success for the 1993 Regiment. BUT without that talent the the 1992 and 1993 corps would have placed lower than they had. Let's be real, the 1992 Blue Knights had a show design far better than the 1992 Regiment, and still placed lower. Without the talent in 1993, the corps would not have bounced back to finish in 3rd place. Design can only take you so far. The talent to back up a great design also has to be there. You can't say talent doesn't matter and then say, well if they also had SCV's staff last year. That's irrelevant, as you were arguing talent, not talent and staff. If after 2017, the entire SCV staff just up and moved to Rockford, Regiment would have had a more talented corps in 2018, because the probability of a percentage of the 2017 SCV corps moving with them to Rockford would have been high. If, based on talent alone, the 2018 Regiment performed the 2018 Vanguard show, they probably would have finished the season in 7th-9th place, and I would say 9th would be more likely than 7th. I think we agree that design can take a less talent corps further and set a more talented corps back. But, design is not enough. Design is not the sole answer. Talent also plays a big part. Again, I think Regiment should focus all their energy on design right now. If the design improves, the talent will improve naturally. But, at the end of the day, they are never going to return to the top tier if the level of talent in the corps does not drastically improve. There's no way around that. P.S. I actually liked your show in 1992. I just watched it last week. Despite the design flaws, it was still and entertaining and fun show to watch. SCV and Regiment were probably my 2nd and 3rd favorite shows (after STAR)! Edited April 25, 2019 by queenanne_1536 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 On 4/23/2019 at 6:05 PM, xandandl said: funny you say that on the Phantom thread. They did try to mimic 27's history of tan/khaki, red, and black but it wasn't as powerful for them as the white or when they tried looking like the Crossmen in black. Black didn't work for Cadets either. I'd say anyone who saw Regiment in '96 would disagree with you. Mike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 It pains me to say this but, design wins! Though, there have been some designs that won that I scratched my head at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 hour ago, queenanne_1536 said: Whether or not 1992 Regiment was the most the most talented corps they've ever had, I cannot say. I do agree that design was a big problem for the 1992 Regiment, and a great success for the 1993 Regiment. BUT without that talent the the 1992 and 1993 corps would have placed lower than they had. Let's be real, the 1992 Blue Knights had a show design far better than the 1992 Regiment, and still placed lower. Without the talent in 1993, the corps would not have bounced back to finish in 3rd place. Design can only take you so far. The talent to back up a great design also has to be there. You can't say talent doesn't matter and then say, well if they also had SCV's staff last year. That's irrelevant, as you were arguing talent, not talent and staff. If after 2017, the entire SCV staff just up and moved to Rockford, Regiment would have had a more talented corps in 2018, because the probability of a percentage of the 2017 SCV corps moving with them to Rockford would have been high. If, based on talent alone, the 2018 Regiment performed the 2018 Vanguard show, they probably would have finished the season in 7th-9th place, and I would say 9th would be more likely than 7th. I think we agree that design can take a less talent corps further and set a more talented corps back. But, design is not enough. Design is not the sole answer. Talent also plays a big part. Again, I think Regiment should focus all their energy on design right now. If the design improves, the talent will improve naturally. But, at the end of the day, they are never going to return to the top tier if the level of talent in the corps does not drastically improve. There's no way around that. P.S. I actually liked your show in 1992. I just watched it last week. Despite the design flaws, it was still and entertaining and fun show to watch. SCV and Regiment were probably my 2nd and 3rd favorite shows (after STAR)! You are making WAY too much of talent. Seriously, how much talent do you need to play a perfect 5.5 minutes of music (talking brass)? When you practice hundreds of hours this is a non-starter IF the staff can teach. Massaging talent is easier, not better as you want to claim. Let's say they are talented but cannot march worth a #### or gets winded easily, again PRACTICE, INSTRUCTION and TRAINING is everything. Obviously, you have to have something worth doing all that training for.....IMHO this is where they are hurting. I think you are wrong. Had PR had the show/training/instruction SCV had they probably would have won or 2nd or 3rd easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Tuma Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 On 4/23/2019 at 6:05 PM, xandandl said: I tried sending you a message but apparently you can’t receive them? That seemed odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 2 hours ago, queenanne_1536 said: Talent does not mean almost nothing. If Regiment did Babylon exactly the way SCV did it, they would have certainly not won finals. I doubt very much they would have even made top 6 or 7 because of the lack of talent. The show simply would have fallen exceptionally short of what SCV did based on talent alone. Any way you slice in, Regiment is not a corps that receives top talent anymore. Last year, they no doubt had the talent of an 8th-10th place corps. Design dropped them to 11th. I felt they should have placed lower. But, I do agree with you that design is a much bigger problem than talent for Regiment (right now). I agree that it all starts with design, but design leads to more talent. In 2016, a less talented Cavaliers corps beat a more talented Cadets corps. It all started with design. The Cavaliers had a very well designed show, whereas the Cadets had a poorly designed show. As that well designed show is well received by the judges and fans and that is reflected in the scores, the morale of the members is boosted, so is the faith in themselves and their program. For the Cadets, the opposite occurs. When you're accustomed to challenging for titles and suddenly you're struggling with design and competitive results, morale decreases. For both, that snowballs throughout the season and results in a corps who finished 9th in 2015 beating a corps that was fighting for the title in 2015. The exact same can be said for the 2017 BAC vs 2017 Cadets. One would be hard pressed to argue the 2018 and 2017 Cavaliers corps were not more talented than the 2016 corps. Design brings success, success brings talent, talent and design bring championships (SCV 2018). I still believe the Cavaliers are headed upwards, and 2018 was one of those - take a step backwards to take two steps forward - kind of years. That's why I said Regiment has to start with design. Design can overcome some talent shortcomings to produce better than expected results. When that happens, talent starts returning. For Regiment to return to the top tier, they need to drastically improve on both design and talent. if all star talent was the sole determining factor for winnings, Cadets would surely not have a majority of their titles. Same for others. There is talent in Rockford....it's knowing what to do with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Mello Dude said: I think you are wrong. Had PR had the show/training/instruction SCV had they probably would have won or 2nd or 3rd easily. Well, let's just agree to disagree. I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong. Let's just leave it at that. No point in going on and on. I would like to talk about your 1992 show if you're up for it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: if all star talent was the sole determining factor for winnings, Cadets would surely not have a majority of their titles. Same for others. There is talent in Rockford....it's knowing what to do with it. I never said there was no talent, I said the membership is less talented than the top tier corps (for certain) and possibly the mid-tier corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 26 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said: I never said there was no talent, I said the membership is less talented than the top tier corps (for certain) and possibly the mid-tier corps. again.....talent is only so much. I know a lot of people that marched in several of the Cadets best years, and few were all world caliber performers. they worked their ##### off and had a staff that knew how to get them there. In the hands of other people, they're mid pack at best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 56 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said: Well, let's just agree to disagree. I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong. Let's just leave it at that. No point in going on and on. I would like to talk about your 1992 show if you're up for it? I didn't march in 92. Now if you want to talk about 89..sure! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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