Ray Kimber

Time to Say Goodbye, after 15 years

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sorry to see you go.

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Sorry you feel this way.  But those are your feelings and you are more than entitled to them.  I am sure the kids who are the musicians you speak of, and some pretty good ones too, will also miss your support no matter how selfish, imo that it comes across.  This activity is for the kids who participate, and not so much there specifically to entertain some old farts like many of us are.  I include myself in that sometimes. They are there because it is a new generations activity and is not there to appease the whims of others who wish the puppy would remain a puppy.

I have found myself swing back and forth from time to time ,wishing DC could be what it was.  Then I watch what it is, I listen to what it is and then I look back and see what I thought was good, and realize it is not as good as what I see today.  I hear amazing musicians.  I see incredible artistry with guards and drill writers and show designers.  I see talent I could not even dream of BITD. 

There are flaws.  Always have been, always will be.  But the current product is tremendous.  Lots of props,  sure but eventually that will subside and regress.  It may have to for the activity to sustain.  The self-discipline taught to MM's, could be learned by organizations themselves.

Sorry to see you go.  The activity will go on without you and you will miss a lot of really good stuff.  I have learned to enjoy it for what it is.  It is still unique and worthwhile and most of it entertains the crap out of me.

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You’re upset over the use of.........P.A.’s!?

I’m trying to get used to the idea of no national squads.

 

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Sorry to see you go.  I know, the whole sound amplification causing so much of the score these days seems...wrong on every level.  I have hope that someone will see this for what it is but for now I just accept it for what it is.  Take some time off, check it out in a few years..you never know.

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1 hour ago, Ray Kimber said:

For several years my delight with Drum Corps has been waning.

 My first experience with Drum Corps was in 2004 at the invitation of Dr. Thomas Root.  It was electrifying for me.  The sound had majesty, grace, and purity.  I went to the souvenir trailers and purchased every CD I could lay my hands on.  The quality of the recordings were much more variable than quality of the Corps on the field.  None of the CDs were electrifying to me.

 Then for many years I endeavored to record all those elements, with various success.  Along the way I provided yearly support for the Ogden Corps Encore Show.  I recall clearly when I was faced with the first instance of canned show program, I was incredulous.  In subsequent years the shows got even more canned and more amplified - rather than a race to have great musicians it was a race for expensive mixer boards, equalizers and speaker systems.

 As a side note there was also a race to incorporate props and scenery. 

 During the last show in Ogden, I listened carefully - I was not electrified.  I was electrified during some of the rehearsals that didn’t have the amplification running.

 It could be that there is a cumulative million+ hours of devotion within the members of a corps, and then all that majesty, grace, and purity is stuffed through a PA system.

 Now I have lost any interest in attending or supporting.  I don’t like listening to amazing musicians through a vitiating PA system.  Moreover I feel guilty about any of my efforts, donations, or support that subsidizes PA systems. It might be valid to compare the use of PA systems to steroid use, for my taste it sounds bad and feels like cheating.  I sorrow for those million hours of musician devotion that I don’t hear with majesty, grace and purity.

Ray Kimber, Ogden Utah

Wow, 2004 and already they've burned him out.

My, and others' here, first show was 20 years before that - frankly, I'm relieved to know that my very own feelings are, then, justified.  Ditto, Mr. Kimber.

 

 

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1 hour ago, LabMaster said:

Sorry you feel this way.  But those are your feelings and you are more than entitled to them.  I am sure the kids who are the musicians you speak of, and some pretty good ones too, will also miss your support no matter how selfish, imo that it comes across.  This activity is for the kids who participate, and not so much there specifically to entertain some old farts like many of us are.  I include myself in that sometimes. They are there because it is a new generations activity and is not there to appease the whims of others who wish the puppy would remain a puppy.

I have found myself swing back and forth from time to time ,wishing DC could be what it was.  Then I watch what it is, I listen to what it is and then I look back and see what I thought was good, and realize it is not as good as what I see today.  I hear amazing musicians.  I see incredible artistry with guards and drill writers and show designers.  I see talent I could not even dream of BITD. 

There are flaws.  Always have been, always will be.  But the current product is tremendous.  Lots of props,  sure but eventually that will subside and regress.  It may have to for the activity to sustain.  The self-discipline taught to MM's, could be learned by organizations themselves.

Sorry to see you go.  The activity will go on without you and you will miss a lot of really good stuff.  I have learned to enjoy it for what it is.  It is still unique and worthwhile and most of it entertains the crap out of me.

See, there's so much you could have said without punching him in the nose in the process.  Daggers are not necessary.

He has his opinion - you've been trumpeting your incredulous attitude towards legacy fans for a long time.  You're consistent, if nothing else.

Your opinion is as valid as his, but he didn't jab you, personally, or anyone else in posting his feelings.

I value his opinion more as a result.

"The older you get, the smarter I'll get" said every father and "Legacy Fan".

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I’m sorry to hear that, too.  I’m from the Annie Mixdorf one pair of sticks era and I’m still here.  I think you should give it another year. 

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1 hour ago, LabMaster said:

Sorry you feel this way.  But those are your feelings and you are more than entitled to them.  I am sure the kids who are the musicians you speak of, and some pretty good ones too, will also miss your support no matter how selfish, imo that it comes across.  This activity is for the kids who participate, and not so much there specifically to entertain some old farts like many of us are.  I include myself in that sometimes. They are there because it is a new generations activity and is not there to appease the whims of others who wish the puppy would remain a puppy.

I have found myself swing back and forth from time to time ,wishing DC could be what it was.  Then I watch what it is, I listen to what it is and then I look back and see what I thought was good, and realize it is not as good as what I see today.  I hear amazing musicians.  I see incredible artistry with guards and drill writers and show designers.  I see talent I could not even dream of BITD. 

There are flaws.  Always have been, always will be.  But the current product is tremendous.  Lots of props,  sure but eventually that will subside and regress.  It may have to for the activity to sustain.  The self-discipline taught to MM's, could be learned by organizations themselves.

Sorry to see you go.  The activity will go on without you and you will miss a lot of really good stuff.  I have learned to enjoy it for what it is.  It is still unique and worthwhile and most of it entertains the crap out of me.

Now, to the substance, but SUCH GREAT GRANDSTANDING you do!  Wow!  Academy award-worthy!

Nobody here needs reminding of what they SHOULD think drum corps IS.  We each get to decide that, and a decision contrary to yours is not selfish.

You have no idea how much money the OP has spent to support the activity.  I'd bet it's many times the cost of show tickets or T-shirts.  "For The Kids" has been demonstrated every year for 15yrs according to him.  Respect THAT - don't denigrate his non-support in the future. 

The activity is not just about the kids.  THAT attitude was dead LONG ago when as kids have found other ways to grow up besides cross-town rivalries.  Today's drum corps, with its million-dollar productions (which obviously appeal to you) are designed AS MUCH to generate ticket sales and support as to give the kids a wonderful experience.  The two are not mutually exclusive and today's kids get a WONDERFUL experience.  But, what would that experience look like today if there wasn't a gate with butts in the seats, and screaming Moms and Dad's buying t-shirts?  Surely, you're not that shallow.

I hear musicians, see artistry... and I still support.  The OP sees the A&E and can't stand it anymore.  I get it.

Flaws?  Geesh, you're young.  The current product is wonderful for you.  Me, meh, but I still support.  For the OP, it's "Meh, I'm done".  The activity had better hear that.  Remember, he's only been here for 15 years.  Already, too much change.  The average fan-tenure, according to Vaticinate last polled, is 3 years (I hear ya', Cixelcyd); I wonder if the type of disdain you show the OP contributes to the, apparently, continually decreasing average life of fans.

You're not sorry to see him go.  If you were, you'd be more sensitive to what draws money out of his pocket, not yours.  The activity will go on without him, for sure.  But plot the activity's historic path to maturity as it stands and it's a clear argument that the "magic sauce" that A&E promised isn't a solution.  You may call this "flaws".

Edited by garfield
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