skevinp Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: Kids arent gonna put up with the #### we did...it's not because they are "woke" or "soft" or we were macho....it's because they are smart. They value themselves and their health more than chasing a ring or status via placement. I don’t think kids from previous generations “put up with” abuse because we weren’t “smart”. The options weren’t there to do anything else. And I believe the people working to change that now include many people, including victims, from previous generations. I think our attention should be on helping people who need our help rather than on generational insults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 28 minutes ago, skevinp said: I don’t think kids from previous generations “put up with” abuse because we weren’t “smart”. The options weren’t there to do anything else. And I believe the people working to change that now include many people, including victims, from previous generations. I think our attention should be on helping people who need our help rather than on generational insults. Or Jeff can just do both as he did in the comment that you conveniently clipped short. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 49 minutes ago, Cappybara said: Or Jeff can just do both as he did in the comment that you conveniently clipped short. I quoted the portion that was relevant to the point I was making and I stand by that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, skevinp said: I quoted the portion that was relevant to the point I was making and I stand by that point. From what I read here and other places the yutes ($1 to My Cousin Vinnie) and people in general are a lot smarter about taking care of their health today compared to people BITD. More info and easier to get to that info. Corps people today would crap if they found out the three meals of the day came from McDonalds, McDonalds and McDonalds. And if you went thru Phillipsburg, NJ at 1am then a snack at... McDonalds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjohn76 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, denverjohn said: Who are "THE POLICE" when a moving caravan/community is in a different state/county/city every other day? Who, where, when does said reporting occur? I was going to mention something to this effect last night because it's a valid concern. You're not talking about a school or camp facility in a fixed location where you have a pre-determined agency or agencies to report to. You're talking about traveling groups that can literally cross countless geographic/governmental jurisdictions in the course of one day/night. Following the guidelines in most states, the person obligated to report should notify the primary law enforcement agency in the jurisdiction that they're in when they first suspect or become aware that an assault may have occurred. With very few exceptions, all law enforcement agencies are required to accept such reports. Once the report is submitted to the law enforcement agency that has immediate jurisdiction, it becomes their responsibility to conduct a preliminary investigation to determine the "w's" (who, what, where, when, etc...). If they determine that an assault occurred within their jurisdiction, the investigation continues under their oversight (or the proper agency within their jurisdiction). However, if they determined the assault may have occurred in a different jurisdiction, they are obligated to refer the report to the appropriate investigating agency. Usually there's a timeframe in which this referral should occur. This timeline can range from "immediate" to a set period of days depending on jurisdiction. That's where things sometimes fall off the rails. If they're unable to determine the correct investigative agency, the report may literally go nowhere. Or it may get passed off to an understaffed/backlogged state level agency that won't touch it for days, weeks... or maybe longer. While all of that's going on... it's important to think about what's happening at the corps. Is the mandatory reporter also obligated to submit the incident to the corps for review & proper handling? What is the corps' process for handling this type of situation if they do become aware of it? What if the incident involves a person of authority that can influence the process? What happens when law enforcement starts to poke around? Despite what's portrayed in some of the cop shows on TV, most law enforcement agencies will move forward in a discrete manner while conducting their investigation. This may mean discrete visits to the housing site where the corps is staying, or asking the victim, alleged suspect and any witnesses to come to the agency's station to give their statements. Is the corps prepared to support this type of law enforcement intervention without the benefit of knowing exactly what is happening (which is entirely possible if the mandatory reporter didn't notify the corps). Are the victim and alleged suspect still continuing on tour? Does the fact that they were interviewed by the police for an undisclosed matter change that decision? What happens if the corps is scheduled to travel to the next destination three states away? This isn't a Law & Order crossover event where detectives/investigators jump on a plane or travel on a dime. The corps pulling out of town could inadvertently delay or even cause the investigation to be suspended if key person(s) are not reasonably available. Is the corps prepared to delay/cancel travel to facilitate an investigation? What are members going to be told? What's the public message going to be when corps XYZ failed to arrive & perform as scheduled at the next show? TLDR - It's more complex than just handing off to law enforcement. Detailed thought needs to be put into how the corps will handle these types of situations, and it needs to take into account every aspect of things from the victim on outwards. Edited January 29, 2021 by rjohn76 Grammar 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 17 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said: From what I read here and other places the yutes ($1 to My Cousin Vinnie) and people in general are a lot smarter about taking care of their health today compared to people BITD. More info and easier to get to that info. Corps people today would crap if they found out the three meals of the day came from McDonalds, McDonalds and McDonalds. And if you went thru Phillipsburg, NJ at 1am then a snack at... McDonalds. Well given we were in the midst of discussing the kinds of serious abuses that merit the involvement of law enforcement, I didn’t think he was talking about hamburgers, but if I read it wrong, I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Just now, skevinp said: Well given we were in the midst of discussing the kinds of serious abuses that merit the involvement of law enforcement, I didn’t think he was talking about hamburgers, but if I read it wrong, I apologize. Thought we were talking about being smarter today in taking care of health be it nourishment or guarding against abuse. But since you didn’t like my portion of the conversation I’ll let you find something else to complain about.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 hours ago, skevinp said: I don’t think kids from previous generations “put up with” abuse because we weren’t “smart”. The options weren’t there to do anything else. And I believe the people working to change that now include many people, including victims, from previous generations. I think our attention should be on helping people who need our help rather than on generational insults. you had police then. you had parents then. there were people you could go to, or you could quit, and if enough people walked, well, that would get attention, so sorry, not buying the argument. And it wasn't meant to be a generational insult...it's that past generations weren't encouraged to speak up. snitches get stitches and all. it was the times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Cappybara said: Or Jeff can just do both as he did in the comment that you conveniently clipped short. all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said: you had police then. you had parents then. there were people you could go to, or you could quit, and if enough people walked, well, that would get attention, so sorry, not buying the argument. And it wasn't meant to be a generational insult...it's that past generations weren't encouraged to speak up. snitches get stitches and all. it was the times. Not to mention.... “well if she hadn’t dressed like that...” or “well what did she do to provoke it” IOW blaming the victim which kept a lot of abuse victims quiet BITD. And yes folks I used “she” as an example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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