Bonfiglio/27th dispute

[Tenoris4Jazz]

11 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Basic questions from a guy who doesn't know much about the financial side of Drum Corps:  What does 'Admin Costs' cover?  Director, office admin, rent of office space?  Or does it include instructors/designers as well?  And how is this determined as in many Corps various people wear several hats - Director may also help cleaning drill.  And finally - are the definitions of admin costs consistent over all Corps?  For example, is what Academy calls admin costs the same as what Blue Stars call admin costs?

The details are there in the 990 forms, if you're willing to dig through them and look.  They're long and complicated, so not many people try, but P&L statements and balance sheets have been my life for 26 years... it's a walk in the park for me.  💲

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, Tenoris4Jazz said:

On the contrary, percentages are the ONLY way to truly compare spending in a situation like DCI.  The idea with non-profits is to spend 15% or less on administrative expenses, no matter how big or small the budget.

For instance, in 2019 the Blue Devils spent $4.75 million dollars on expenses, but had $4.738 million in revenue.  Ideally, a non-profit should not have a profit at the end of the year.  Any excess revenue should be spent somewhere... so if BD spends an extra $250k on something administrative to keep from putting it in the bank, that's a good thing.  The administrative expenses were $1.26 million, or 26.4% though... that's too high.  The Blue Stars spent $1.54 million on expenses, but only 3.7% on administration.  Now, you can look at that and say that BD should have spent 10% of their admin money on something related to the program.  You can also look at the Blue Stars and say only $57,600 was spent on "administrative costs."  Well, their Executive Director and Corps Director make a combined $102,500... why is all of that not categorized as administrative?  

You have to use percentages for measuring spending, because budgets are never equal.  However, you are 100% correct that what is defined as administrative from corps to corps is a black hole financially.  It's a shame there aren't any financial rules requiring a uniform definition of admin costs.

 

P.S.   I have wanted to do a deep dive into corps' finances for years, but I just haven't had the time.  It's scary some of the things I've seen on these organizational financial evaluations. Several groups don't have an independent audit of their finances... EVER!!!  The balance sheet for some units is awash in red ink.  Given that the last 990 forms most corps have filed are pre-COVID, the picture they painted in 2020 is barely telling the truth about how close a lot of them are to insolvency.

find the old 990's threads

[BitterDCIFan]

On 12/28/2021 at 8:10 PM, Tim K said:

It goes back earlier than 2016. After a disastrous reunion in 2012, DB and JMcW announced that a foundation would be established to fund scholarships to honor their parents. Two scholarships would be awarded, both to young people pursuing careers in education. One recipient would be a music educator, the other an elementary school teacher, honoring their father’s love of drum corps and his career as a teacher. To fund the scholarships, the two sold 27th Lancer memorabilia. I know I purchased a 27th Lancer koozie and a CD. I believe there were t-shirts, coffee mugs, pens, anything you might see in a souvenir stand. This dates back to 2013. My understanding is the use of the 27th Lancer name and not the scholarship is what was at issue.  I’m also thinking that the sale of the souvenirs did not go very well which could be the “expenses.” I don’t know this for a fact, it is just a hunch. I would wonder how much of a market there would be for 27th memorabilia. I know I loved 27th, so too did many of my friends, and while I made a small purchase, it was a one and done deal. I can’t see the sales funding a scholarship for years to come. 

It is amazing that you are correct on some details and so wrong on many others. Let's get the facts straight.

1. The thought of forming a foundation was discussed at a family gathering in the fall of 2011. The brother had a diner and was too busy to be involved, the older sibling wanted complete control, which others disagreed with and she left the family gathering

2. At the Massachusetts Drum Corps Hall of Fame banquet at Florian Hall in early 2012, Denise, along with Peggy Twiggs, was inducted into the HOF. Patty was there in the audience. During her acceptance speech, Denise announced to the audience, several hundred people. the formation of the foundation. It was very well received by those in attendance.

3. Over the next few months, there were many meetings with Patty and about another dozen alumni to organize a 45th anniversary of the forming of the corps. The reunion WAS A HUGE SUCCESS - several hundred attended the two celebrations. There was an low key gathering with over a hundred on Friday evening, followed by a huge, dress-up dinner on Saturday evening with over 200. Patty invited the foundation to set up an awning to sell merchandise that had the foundation name and logo.

4. At the Saturday evening dinner, there were a few speeches, and Patty handed to Denise and Janine, a check to help support the new foundation. I believe the check was $500. How could Patty ever say she had no knowledge of the foundation, when in fact she handed a check over to D&J?

5. The finances. If anyone here has ever started a business, there are start-up costs. Legal fees to incorporate and to obtain the coveted 501(c)3. And there are aso expenses to have an emblem trademarked. All done legally and expensive. So your first year in business usually looks dismal. Subsequently, the foundation done has awarded scholarships every year at DCI semi-finals and their Facebook page can verify the photos of the winners.

6. Fund raising. The foundation strives to have two fund raising events each year. A bowling tournament in early February and a golf tournament in September. These events include members of other alumni corps, all gathering to help support a worthy cause and to reminisce. We were once warriors to our corps and drill teams, we are now older friends with fond memories and no bitterness. But there are bragging rights at each event for high score in bowling, or low score for golf.

On the other hand;

7. Why did Patty change the legal status of the 27th Lancers from a non-profit, to a FOR PROFIT corporation? What income does the 27th Lancers need? They do not provide any benefit to any other organization. As a FOR PROFIT corporation, she can keep all the income after expenses. 

8. Patty believes there is money to be made off the corps name. The corps folded in 1986, and there was a very successful alumni corps in 1994 and 95. The connection for the foundation was simple, tie the corps name to the foundation and the drum corps community would better identify with the organization. There was no deception. However, a judge saw a similarity between the two names, thought there could be some confusion about donations, and thus the Bonfiglio Foundation was formed. 

9. Patty claims that she and her brother never wanted to do this lawsuit, yet, they did. They have dragged their siblings through courts to make a legal record of the words and statements spoken. Lawyers craft the questions and witnesses must answer. Have you ever tried to explain a drum & bugle to a non-follower? It was not a jury of their peers.

10. Does anyone think that the former director of the Cadets has an axe to grind. He lost his lucrative job and is friends with Patty. He is more than willing to try and tarnish the career of Denise.

And;

11. Denise has had a stellar work career, rising the the level of vice president, and has done well in all areas of finance independently of any outside sources. Does anyone actually believe she would need additional income that might be derived from a foundation? 

12. Denise has earned every accolade the marching arts activity can bestow on an individual. She's judged at the highest levels of WGI, she was with SCV during some lean years which culminated with a long sought-after championship, and she is now rebuilding one of the oldest, and proudest corps ever formed. 

 

 

[IllianaLancerContra]

44 minutes ago, BitterDCIFan said:

It is amazing that you are correct on some details and so wrong on many others. Let's get the facts straight.

1. The thought of forming a foundation was discussed at a family gathering in the fall of 2011. The brother had a diner and was too busy to be involved, the older sibling wanted complete control, which others disagreed with and she left the family gathering

2. At the Massachusetts Drum Corps Hall of Fame banquet at Florian Hall in early 2012, Denise, along with Peggy Twiggs, was inducted into the HOF. Patty was there in the audience. During her acceptance speech, Denise announced to the audience, several hundred people. the formation of the foundation. It was very well received by those in attendance.

3. Over the next few months, there were many meetings with Patty and about another dozen alumni to organize a 45th anniversary of the forming of the corps. The reunion WAS A HUGE SUCCESS - several hundred attended the two celebrations. There was an low key gathering with over a hundred on Friday evening, followed by a huge, dress-up dinner on Saturday evening with over 200. Patty invited the foundation to set up an awning to sell merchandise that had the foundation name and logo.

4. At the Saturday evening dinner, there were a few speeches, and Patty handed to Denise and Janine, a check to help support the new foundation. I believe the check was $500. How could Patty ever say she had no knowledge of the foundation, when in fact she handed a check over to D&J?

5. The finances. If anyone here has ever started a business, there are start-up costs. Legal fees to incorporate and to obtain the coveted 501(c)3. And there are aso expenses to have an emblem trademarked. All done legally and expensive. So your first year in business usually looks dismal. Subsequently, the foundation done has awarded scholarships every year at DCI semi-finals and their Facebook page can verify the photos of the winners.

6. Fund raising. The foundation strives to have two fund raising events each year. A bowling tournament in early February and a golf tournament in September. These events include members of other alumni corps, all gathering to help support a worthy cause and to reminisce. We were once warriors to our corps and drill teams, we are now older friends with fond memories and no bitterness. But there are bragging rights at each event for high score in bowling, or low score for golf.

On the other hand;

7. Why did Patty change the legal status of the 27th Lancers from a non-profit, to a FOR PROFIT corporation? What income does the 27th Lancers need? They do not provide any benefit to any other organization. As a FOR PROFIT corporation, she can keep all the income after expenses. 

8. Patty believes there is money to be made off the corps name. The corps folded in 1986, and there was a very successful alumni corps in 1994 and 95. The connection for the foundation was simple, tie the corps name to the foundation and the drum corps community would better identify with the organization. There was no deception. However, a judge saw a similarity between the two names, thought there could be some confusion about donations, and thus the Bonfiglio Foundation was formed. 

9. Patty claims that she and her brother never wanted to do this lawsuit, yet, they did. They have dragged their siblings through courts to make a legal record of the words and statements spoken. Lawyers craft the questions and witnesses must answer. Have you ever tried to explain a drum & bugle to a non-follower? It was not a jury of their peers.

10. Does anyone think that the former director of the Cadets has an axe to grind. He lost his lucrative job and is friends with Patty. He is more than willing to try and tarnish the career of Denise.

And;

11. Denise has had a stellar work career, rising the the level of vice president, and has done well in all areas of finance independently of any outside sources. Does anyone actually believe she would need additional income that might be derived from a foundation? 

12. Denise has earned every accolade the marching arts activity can bestow on an individual. She's judged at the highest levels of WGI, she was with SCV during some lean years which culminated with a long sought-after championship, and she is now rebuilding one of the oldest, and proudest corps ever formed. 

 

 

Welcome to DCP!

We'll put you in the DB corner regarding this topic.

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, BitterDCIFan said:

It is amazing that you are correct on some details and so wrong on many others. Let's get the facts straight.

1. The thought of forming a foundation was discussed at a family gathering in the fall of 2011. The brother had a diner and was too busy to be involved, the older sibling wanted complete control, which others disagreed with and she left the family gathering

2. At the Massachusetts Drum Corps Hall of Fame banquet at Florian Hall in early 2012, Denise, along with Peggy Twiggs, was inducted into the HOF. Patty was there in the audience. During her acceptance speech, Denise announced to the audience, several hundred people. the formation of the foundation. It was very well received by those in attendance.

3. Over the next few months, there were many meetings with Patty and about another dozen alumni to organize a 45th anniversary of the forming of the corps. The reunion WAS A HUGE SUCCESS - several hundred attended the two celebrations. There was an low key gathering with over a hundred on Friday evening, followed by a huge, dress-up dinner on Saturday evening with over 200. Patty invited the foundation to set up an awning to sell merchandise that had the foundation name and logo.

4. At the Saturday evening dinner, there were a few speeches, and Patty handed to Denise and Janine, a check to help support the new foundation. I believe the check was $500. How could Patty ever say she had no knowledge of the foundation, when in fact she handed a check over to D&J?

5. The finances. If anyone here has ever started a business, there are start-up costs. Legal fees to incorporate and to obtain the coveted 501(c)3. And there are aso expenses to have an emblem trademarked. All done legally and expensive. So your first year in business usually looks dismal. Subsequently, the foundation done has awarded scholarships every year at DCI semi-finals and their Facebook page can verify the photos of the winners.

6. Fund raising. The foundation strives to have two fund raising events each year. A bowling tournament in early February and a golf tournament in September. These events include members of other alumni corps, all gathering to help support a worthy cause and to reminisce. We were once warriors to our corps and drill teams, we are now older friends with fond memories and no bitterness. But there are bragging rights at each event for high score in bowling, or low score for golf.

On the other hand;

7. Why did Patty change the legal status of the 27th Lancers from a non-profit, to a FOR PROFIT corporation? What income does the 27th Lancers need? They do not provide any benefit to any other organization. As a FOR PROFIT corporation, she can keep all the income after expenses. 

8. Patty believes there is money to be made off the corps name. The corps folded in 1986, and there was a very successful alumni corps in 1994 and 95. The connection for the foundation was simple, tie the corps name to the foundation and the drum corps community would better identify with the organization. There was no deception. However, a judge saw a similarity between the two names, thought there could be some confusion about donations, and thus the Bonfiglio Foundation was formed. 

9. Patty claims that she and her brother never wanted to do this lawsuit, yet, they did. They have dragged their siblings through courts to make a legal record of the words and statements spoken. Lawyers craft the questions and witnesses must answer. Have you ever tried to explain a drum & bugle to a non-follower? It was not a jury of their peers.

10. Does anyone think that the former director of the Cadets has an axe to grind. He lost his lucrative job and is friends with Patty. He is more than willing to try and tarnish the career of Denise.

And;

11. Denise has had a stellar work career, rising the the level of vice president, and has done well in all areas of finance independently of any outside sources. Does anyone actually believe she would need additional income that might be derived from a foundation? 

12. Denise has earned every accolade the marching arts activity can bestow on an individual. She's judged at the highest levels of WGI, she was with SCV during some lean years which culminated with a long sought-after championship, and she is now rebuilding one of the oldest, and proudest corps ever formed. 

 

 

a few questions:

 

how then if Patty is so wrong per your very detailed commentary...that seems to me you were there or being fed information to post...how is it Patty won in court?

i see you bring up Hopkins name. You have proof of his involvement in any way shape or form to back up your allegations?

 

yes starts up have expenses. but after all these years only $2000 out in scholarships? where was the fundraising?

 

 

thats all for now. i'll wait for whoever is feeding you info to give it to you type.

 

and for the record i dont have a horse in the race

[FTNK]

Thanks for the info, Denise!

[FTNK]

2 hours ago, BitterDCIFan said:

12. Denise has earned every accolade the marching arts activity can bestow on an individual. She's judged at the highest levels of WGI, she was with SCV during some lean years which culminated with a long sought-after championship, and she is now rebuilding one of the oldest, and proudest corps ever formed.

No highly successful person in the marching arts has ever done anything wrong!

[JimF-LowBari]

2 hours ago, BitterDCIFan said:

It is amazing that you are correct on some details and so wrong on many others. Let's get the facts straight.

1. The thought of forming a foundation was discussed at a family gathering in the fall of 2011. The brother had a diner and was too busy to be involved, the older sibling wanted complete control, which others disagreed with and she left the family gathering

2. At the Massachusetts Drum Corps Hall of Fame banquet at Florian Hall in early 2012, Denise, along with Peggy Twiggs, was inducted into the HOF. Patty was there in the audience. During her acceptance speech, Denise announced to the audience, several hundred people. the formation of the foundation. It was very well received by those in attendance.

3. Over the next few months, there were many meetings with Patty and about another dozen alumni to organize a 45th anniversary of the forming of the corps. The reunion WAS A HUGE SUCCESS - several hundred attended the two celebrations. There was an low key gathering with over a hundred on Friday evening, followed by a huge, dress-up dinner on Saturday evening with over 200. Patty invited the foundation to set up an awning to sell merchandise that had the foundation name and logo.

4. At the Saturday evening dinner, there were a few speeches, and Patty handed to Denise and Janine, a check to help support the new foundation. I believe the check was $500. How could Patty ever say she had no knowledge of the foundation, when in fact she handed a check over to D&J?

5. The finances. If anyone here has ever started a business, there are start-up costs. Legal fees to incorporate and to obtain the coveted 501(c)3. And there are aso expenses to have an emblem trademarked. All done legally and expensive. So your first year in business usually looks dismal. Subsequently, the foundation done has awarded scholarships every year at DCI semi-finals and their Facebook page can verify the photos of the winners.

6. Fund raising. The foundation strives to have two fund raising events each year. A bowling tournament in early February and a golf tournament in September. These events include members of other alumni corps, all gathering to help support a worthy cause and to reminisce. We were once warriors to our corps and drill teams, we are now older friends with fond memories and no bitterness. But there are bragging rights at each event for high score in bowling, or low score for golf.

On the other hand;

7. Why did Patty change the legal status of the 27th Lancers from a non-profit, to a FOR PROFIT corporation? What income does the 27th Lancers need? They do not provide any benefit to any other organization. As a FOR PROFIT corporation, she can keep all the income after expenses. 

8. Patty believes there is money to be made off the corps name. The corps folded in 1986, and there was a very successful alumni corps in 1994 and 95. The connection for the foundation was simple, tie the corps name to the foundation and the drum corps community would better identify with the organization. There was no deception. However, a judge saw a similarity between the two names, thought there could be some confusion about donations, and thus the Bonfiglio Foundation was formed. 

9. Patty claims that she and her brother never wanted to do this lawsuit, yet, they did. They have dragged their siblings through courts to make a legal record of the words and statements spoken. Lawyers craft the questions and witnesses must answer. Have you ever tried to explain a drum & bugle to a non-follower? It was not a jury of their peers.

10. Does anyone think that the former director of the Cadets has an axe to grind. He lost his lucrative job and is friends with Patty. He is more than willing to try and tarnish the career of Denise.

And;

11. Denise has had a stellar work career, rising the the level of vice president, and has done well in all areas of finance independently of any outside sources. Does anyone actually believe she would need additional income that might be derived from a foundation? 

12. Denise has earned every accolade the marching arts activity can bestow on an individual. She's judged at the highest levels of WGI, she was with SCV during some lean years which culminated with a long sought-after championship, and she is now rebuilding one of the oldest, and proudest corps ever formed. 

 

 

In regards to the non profit bit in 7. It’s not always easy to get and maintain a non-profit status. Was in a group that lost theirs for a few years. Reason was stupidity in doing same old same old while requirements changed. And just because a group has a not non-profit (aka for profit) status it doesn’t mean their purpose is to make money.

And IIRC my group had to donate a certain amount (percentage) to a worth cause connected to our activity. Don’t give enough… no non-profit status

Edited December 30, 2021 by JimF-LowBari

[Tim K]

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

 

yes starts up have expenses. but after all these years only $2000 out in scholarships? where was the fundraising?

 

 

 

I believe the court case only dealt with 2013 and $2,000 was awarded in 2013. Since that time I believe two scholarships have been awarded annually and are given out at the ceremonies after semi’s when Hall of Fame members and age outs are recognized. If they have been awarded each year, that would be $16,000.

[BitterDCIFan]

14 minutes ago, Tim K said:

I believe the court case only dealt with 2013 and $2,000 was awarded in 2013. Since that time I believe two scholarships have been awarded annually and are given out at the ceremonies after semi’s when Hall of Fame members and age outs are recognized. If they have been awarded each year, that would be $16,000.

Tim K is correct. All anyone has to do is to follow the Foundation on their FB page. There are photos showing the names of every recipient. I believe two winners every year except for 2020 (no championship) and possibly 1 in 2021.