Carolina Crown 2023

[flugelswerebugels]

2 hours ago, skevinp said:

I nominate “bottlenecky” as DCP’s word of the year.

We had a French Horn player whose nickname was Necky. But I like Bottlenecky better.

[wilme861]

59 minutes ago, NewArpege said:

Of course that’s what they do!  You think that hundreds of judges each summer gently nudge the scores up each night bc they recognize all the minor improvements made each day?  Come on. The scores are not that scientific.  

I hope you get to chat with a judge sometime. You’re probably going to be surprised by how smart and professional these guys are and yet how “normal” they are at the same time. The problem conspiracy theorists always overlook (this isn’t specific to just DCI judging btw) is that people are usually either way too busy or just way too lazy to do what people accuse them of doing.

[TheOneWhoKnows]

1 hour ago, NewArpege said:

Of course that’s what they do!  You think that hundreds of judges each summer gently nudge the scores up each night bc they recognize all the minor improvements made each day?  Come on. The scores are not that scientific.  

Hi, it’s your friendly neighborhood judge here.

No, we don’t look at previous scores and go “oh I’m on this caption and they had a 8.4 and 8.2 yesterday so I need to start there”.

Do we see score recaps? Sure. Actually in a circuit I judge, I don’t get to see recaps from previous shows or scores. I go in blind. As do most judges who even do see a recap. A score is as of a point in time. It’s recorded history of that nights performance. Not a rolling target.

We are given trainings upon trainings to utilize a criteria and philosophy to adjudicate. It’s our job to watch, listen, evaluate, utilize criteria to score performances. We have to understand the value of a tenth when it comes to spreads and so on and so on.

There have been plenty of times my scores have been less than a previous week. There’s been times my scores are stagnant. And times my scores have increased from a previous. It’s about performance of the night.  

[nsxanax]

3 hours ago, skevinp said:

I nominate “bottlenecky” as DCP’s word of the year.

It’s gotten OED entry written all over it📖🖊️

[saxfreq1128]

1 hour ago, NewArpege said:

Of course that’s what they do!  You think that hundreds of judges each summer gently nudge the scores up each night bc they recognize all the minor improvements made each day?  Come on. The scores are not that scientific.  

tbf a lot of judges see the corps multiple times and could very well be basing the increases on their own repeated viewing and previous scores, but I agree, the scores aren’t happening in a vacuum in either case. 

[NewArpege]

48 minutes ago, wilme861 said:

I hope you get to chat with a judge sometime. You’re probably going to be surprised by how smart and professional these guys are and yet how “normal” they are at the same time. The problem conspiracy theorists always overlook (this isn’t specific to just DCI judging btw) is that people are usually either way too busy or just way too lazy to do what people accuse them of doing.

Our color guard coach was a judge at Quarter Finals one year.  He knew the scores each corp was most likely to get before going. That’s not saying it’s rigged, but rather he knew what the judging community thought in advance and had hypothesized what each corp would get. Definitely not blind. And definitely not unbiased either. 

[wilme861]

Just now, NewArpege said:

Our color guard coach was a judge at Quarter Finals one year.  He knew the scores each corp was most likely to get before going. That’s not saying it’s rigged, but rather he knew what the judging community thought in advance and had hypothesized what each corp would get. Definitely not blind. And definitely not unbiased either. 

I'm not a judge and I can do that. If Crown is scoring around a 19.4 in something a day ago, newsflash, they won't be scoring a 18.1 today...

[MBo1974]

18 minutes ago, wilme861 said:

I'm not a judge and I can do that. If Crown is scoring around a 19.4 in something a day ago, newsflash, they won't be scoring a 18.1 today...

It isn't one or the other, and to proclaim otherwise is foolish.  Of course some in the judging community have issue not inflecting bias and tracking scores.  Duh.  Admitting the obvious of the human inflection isn't saying all or a majority can't be completely objective.   

[NewArpege]

42 minutes ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:

Hi, it’s your friendly neighborhood judge here.

No, we don’t look at previous scores and go “oh I’m on this caption and they had a 8.4 and 8.2 yesterday so I need to start there”.

Do we see score recaps? Sure. Actually in a circuit I judge, I don’t get to see recaps from previous shows or scores. I go in blind. As do most judges who even do see a recap. A score is as of a point in time. It’s recorded history of that nights performance. Not a rolling target.

We are given trainings upon trainings to utilize a criteria and philosophy to adjudicate. It’s our job to watch, listen, evaluate, utilize criteria to score performances. We have to understand the value of a tenth when it comes to spreads and so on and so on.

There have been plenty of times my scores have been less than a previous week. There’s been times my scores are stagnant. And times my scores have increased from a previous. It’s about performance of the night.  

I’m encouraged to hear of the care many judges go through to preserve the art and the credibility of the judging institution.  All judges are very skilled and trained. 

Im going to step out of the box though with some real talk as it’s statistically improbable that the scores today aren’t correlated with prior scores.  In sports like ice skating, gymnastics, cheerleading, etc there is variability in the scores between each competition—sometimes groups are higher and then they go lower. That level of variability is nearly none-existent in drum corp.  Also, night after night, the little fixes that go in would go virtually unnoticed unless someone had seen prior shows or knew the prior scoring and/or judging comments. Case in point, how would a judge know GE increased for Crown bc they changed drill at end of ballot without knowing what was there prior?  They wouldn’t. There would be no way of assessing that without prior knowledge of the show in some form.
 

Lastly, in order to believe the judging is so precise that the scores remain virtually the same with minor increases each night, we have to accept the entire judging committees interpretation of a shows visual and GE is exactly the same.  In what world does any committee or group universally agree on anything, especially scoring/rating artistic value?  And somehow we have to suspend our belief and say this group of judges manage agree on artistic merit all the way down to the tenths almost exactly the same score as the night before, and that happens almost every night with little deviation or correction over 2 months?  It’s statistically improbable and contrary to human nature.  But we love drum corp and the judges anyways. I just don’t want to pretend the judging is more accurate or unbiased than actuality. 

[skevinp]

1 hour ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:

Hi, it’s your friendly neighborhood judge here.

No, we don’t look at previous scores and go “oh I’m on this caption and they had a 8.4 and 8.2 yesterday so I need to start there”.

Do we see score recaps? Sure. Actually in a circuit I judge, I don’t get to see recaps from previous shows or scores. I go in blind. As do most judges who even do see a recap. A score is as of a point in time. It’s recorded history of that nights performance. Not a rolling target.

We are given trainings upon trainings to utilize a criteria and philosophy to adjudicate. It’s our job to watch, listen, evaluate, utilize criteria to score performances. We have to understand the value of a tenth when it comes to spreads and so on and so on.

There have been plenty of times my scores have been less than a previous week. There’s been times my scores are stagnant. And times my scores have increased from a previous. It’s about performance of the night.  

Are you a DCI judge, though?