C.Holland Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 23 minutes ago, MikeN said: I'm definitely not opposed to the attitude you promote - I'll take any drum corps (no matter the form) over no drum corps. However, I'd submit the choice isn't the either-or you propose. At the end of the day, audience butts in seats is not causing corps to fold. 20 new marching slots for WW's (or roughly $80k in revenue per year) isn't going to keep corps from folding. Corps *are* folding due to bus rental, gas and housing increases that far outpace what corps can earn. Until TPTB figure out a solution to that, doesn't matter what you bring to or put on the field. Mike someone understands!! man. how many time can we say the same thing over and over and no one listens. Housing, food, travel. Travel and food rise and fall with supply chain costs. However housing is the thing that's constantly going up and facilities keep passing costs onto the corps. As schools switch up their operating calendar, and other activities lay claim to spaces and fields, this is the thing becoming more problematic every season. Heck, many corps have problems finding fields during finals because Indy schools are in session during this week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 13 hours ago, Slingerland said: I get that. I don't go to MB shows, and have no interest in them, but if it comes down to embracing that concept in order to allow drum corps to survive at the WC level, then I'm ok with having them be part of the DCI product line (in their own division). Purely from a business standpoint, standing at the gate and telling the thousands of potential participants (and their parents, and the tour sponsors whose ears would be much more impressed with the numbers than they are with 22 WC corps and a dozen OC corps) that they can't be part of the client base because some of us don't like the instruments they play is self-defeating. Marching band is part of the eco-verse here already. Embrace it and use it to sustain drum corps, or watch drum corps die. Those are pretty much the choices. i would hope drum corps survives, but it'd have to do it without me. i don't like Nascar....so i don't spend money on it. i only spend money on Disney to not be divorced and dealing with visitation rights.I don't like country music, so i don't spend money on it.And if drum corps added woodwinds, well, i wouldn't spend money on it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 10 hours ago, MikeN said: I'm definitely not opposed to the attitude you promote - I'll take any drum corps (no matter the form) over no drum corps. However, I'd submit the choice isn't the either-or you propose. At the end of the day, audience butts in seats is not causing corps to fold. 20 new marching slots for WW's (or roughly $80k in revenue per year) isn't going to keep corps from folding. Corps *are* folding due to bus rental, gas and housing increases that far outpace what corps can earn. Until TPTB figure out a solution to that, doesn't matter what you bring to or put on the field. Mike exactly. adding woodwinds is not going to speed drum corps into fiscal health. it could however speed up the decline 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 22 hours ago, Slingerland said: I get that. I don't go to MB shows, and have no interest in them, but if it comes down to embracing that concept in order to allow drum corps to survive at the WC level, then I'm ok with having them be part of the DCI product line (in their own division). Purely from a business standpoint, standing at the gate and telling the thousands of potential participants (and their parents, and the tour sponsors whose ears would be much more impressed with the numbers than they are with 22 WC corps and a dozen OC corps) that they can't be part of the client base because some of us don't like the instruments they play is self-defeating. Marching band is part of the eco-verse here already. Embrace it and use it to sustain drum corps, or watch drum corps die. Those are pretty much the choices. Drum corps has been dying for 100 years already. Since the 1920s, corps have been pursuing unsustainable paths to equip, travel and compete. Sometimes, they make it work for awhile with charitable donations, or the participants/admins digging deeper into their own pockets. Sometimes they fail. And when they fail, we all wring our hands over the fundamentally unsustainable nature of it all. But it remains that way. Allegedly, DCI was formed with this as the primary concern. At the time of its founding, junior corps leaders were concerned about the sustainability of the operating model. Focus was increasingly on the VFW Nationals. Corps traveled from north, south, east and west to get there. But only a handful of winning corps on each of those tour legs could make that a financially sustainable practice - about 20 corps in aggregate. So after 50 years of DCI, we still have about 20 corps in that position. The more things change, the more they stay the same. I do not buy the "give me woodwinds, or give me death" premise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post craiga Posted February 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2023 This whole woodwind discussion is a dog which ain't gonna hunt....because at present (including last month's Januals), NOBODY IS EVEN SUGGESTING WOODWINDS, other than that high school band kid who has been bringing it up as a way of "Saving" drum corps. The woodwind proposals in the past originated with that man who is now a convicted felon and no longer in the activity. There is literally nothing to see here. 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps8294 Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) In addition to corps costs is the overall cost to the activity whenever a corps folds. Alumni, parents, fans, and followers of various corps no longer attending shows because their corps is no longer around. Sure there are exceptions for those that stick with the activity no matter what; however, the large following for a folded corps is a lot of paying customers no longer in the seats and a lot of lost revenue for the activity, overall. Edited February 26, 2023 by corps8294 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOC Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 3 hours ago, corps8294 said: In addition to corps costs is the overall cost to the activity whenever a corps folds. Alumni, parents, fans, and followers of various corps no longer attending shows because their corps is no longer around. Sure there are exceptions for those that stick with the activity no matter what; however, the large following for a folded corps is a lot of paying customers no longer the seats and a lot of lost revenue for the activity, overall. Are we at the point, or getting close to it, where DCI is losing more fans than gaining new ones each year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 On 2/17/2023 at 10:27 AM, Tenoris4Jazz said: If this is the case, they'll have to call it something else. Drum corps will be dead the moment it leaves the football field. I know I sound overly dramatic, but football is played on a football field, even if it's 60 yards long and indoors. Basketball is played on a court, even if it's a run at Rucker Park. Soccer is played... well, anywhere there's a ball and something serving as a goal. Drum corps is performed (I hesitate to say "marched" these days) on a parade field or football field, be it NFL, NCAA or high school. I am not sure Drum corps would be dead, but it would certainly be relocated. Drum corps could be successful indoors in an arena size space much like they do in Japan and South Korea. If you want to save Drum corps, putting your head in an old-school bench "vise" is probably not a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps8294 Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 9 hours ago, TOC said: Are we at the point, or getting close to it, where DCI is losing more fans than gaining new ones each year? With the small number of actively competing drum corps as of current, both DCI and DCA; I'd say the numbers are starting to dwindle as opposed to actually losing. More alumni and fans are choosing to stream and watch from their homes than paying for a week or half a week at DCI. We are at the point, that, whenever a corps folds or goes inactive for a season or more a block is removed from an already teetering Jenga structure. Sooner or later, that structure will collapse. A drum corps folding has always been sad, no matter the era and decade; but there was a time when there were so many competing corps with alumni, parents, fan bases, supporters, etc. that when a corps folded, another one would be there to fill in the gap and the activity was still viable because of the vast number of corps. No so much anymore. In summary, the DCI fanbase is definitely shrinking; but it hasn't reached a total mass exodus level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 15 hours ago, corps8294 said: With the small number of actively competing drum corps as of current, both DCI and DCA; I'd say the numbers are starting to dwindle as opposed to actually losing. More alumni and fans are choosing to stream and watch from their homes than paying for a week or half a week at DCI. We are at the point, that, whenever a corps folds or goes inactive for a season or more a block is removed from an already teetering Jenga structure. Sooner or later, that structure will collapse. A drum corps folding has always been sad, no matter the era and decade; but there was a time when there were so many competing corps with alumni, parents, fan bases, supporters, etc. that when a corps folded, another one would be there to fill in the gap and the activity was still viable because of the vast number of corps. No so much anymore. In summary, the DCI fanbase is definitely shrinking; but it hasn't reached a total mass exodus level. yet Indy keeps selling out the concert side Saturday night, and Thursday and Friday attendance looks to be up too. streaming has changed the game tho, but it's more important than ever with fewer shows to attend. thats hurt live attendance numbers, because not enough shows within a decent driving distance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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