Per the California Attorney General Vanguard is operating illegally as a non profit

[Terri Schehr]

18 hours ago, Achilles said:

Appreciate that, I'm really asking about the DC community at large, not necessarily specific to your experience.

Understood. I was a little perplexed when I heard him because I have no problem saying no. 😂 

[Achilles]

1 hour ago, Terri Schehr said:

Understood. I was a little perplexed when I heard him because I have no problem saying no. 😂 

I get this feeling / perception that, when it comes to some folks on the BoD, and the alumni org and the admin, support and instructional staffs, case by case of course, they feel that they can try, because they are either low-paid, are unpaid volunteers, or are donors, to dictate what and how things are done (vs. plugging into a corps management's plan, formal or otherwise). That is, 'hey, I'm here on my time and on my dime and if things aren't done my way, I'm taking the highway'. For corps that don't have mature plans or are just getting started, this could be frustrating, if true. Sure, these folks should be solicited for some say in a spirit of inclusion. In the end though, the established management hierarchy should have final say as to how much and when these ideas and input are implemented.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Achilles
Grammar

[BigW]

20 minutes ago, Achilles said:

I get this feeling / perception that, when it comes to some folks on the BoD, and the alumni org and the admin, support and instructional staffs, case by case of course, they feel that they can try, because they are either low-paid, are unpaid volunteers, or are donors, to dictate what and how things are done (vs. plugging into a corps management's plan, formal or otherwise). That is, 'hey, I'm here on my time and on my dime and if things aren't done my way, I'm taking the highway'. For corps that don't have mature plans or are just getting started, this could be frustrating, if true. Sure, these folks should be solicited for some say in a spirit of inclusion. In the end though, the established management hierarchy should have final say as to how much and when these ideas and input are implemented.

The feeling that one has been listened to and respected goes a long way. Also maybe explaining why there's a disagreement and why the course of action might be different is also appreciated by people.

 

When people feel that they're talking to a wall or the answers aren't well thought out, that's when you have these problems.

[rpbobcat]

On 5/15/2023 at 12:18 PM, craiga said:

Too much doom and gloom.  If someone really believes that drum corps is either dying or already dead, why on earth would they even bother to come onto DCP and post?  Just move along, seriously.  People have been saying drum corps is dying since the 70s and they are still here, even after a pandemic.

Saying that Drum Corps is either either dying or dead would be an exaggeration.

Yes, as you say, drum corps is still here, after Covid . But, that's in large part, because of Federal Covid Relief Funds, not because of anything DCI did.

I don't think that anyone who has followed the activity since the  1970's can help but notice the activity has "contracted"  significantly .

The changes to the length of the season and the number of corps that participate, show that

drum corps doesn't draw like it once did .

The question is, is  DCI willing to make the hard choices  needed to adjust to changing times, or just continue to "contract" ?

 

 

 

 

[Chief Guns]

2 hours ago, BigW said:

The feeling that one has been listened to and respected goes a long way. Also maybe explaining why there's a disagreement and why the course of action might be different is also appreciated by people.

 

When people feel that they're talking to a wall or the answers aren't well thought out, that's when you have these problems.

100% correct. In the Navy we call it "Active Communication."

Alot of times the junior guys will have ideas and thoughts, and even if their ideas aren't implemented, in the end they just want to know they have a voice, and that they are apart of the team, regardless of rank and/or position of authority. And that goes a long way to building a healthy cohesive unit. 

As a Senior Enlisted Leader, I will be the first to say that some of the best ideas I ever heard, came from my young Sailors and Marines, not my fellow Chiefs and Officers. 

[scheherazadesghost]

We're using vagaries here when it may not be helpful to do so.

Those of us that have publicly and privately highlighted our concerns about Vanguard are not young, innocent cherubs, we aren't junior, and we aren't working within the hierarchy of the institution. We are external stakeholders and qualified professionals who earned our stripes outside of the insular drum corps world, and who are trained in the professional niches in which we bring up our concerns. For some reason, this has mostly been treated like a threat instead of an asset.

The actual young or "junior" people in our scenario are now alumni who either (1) already tried to speak up and were dismissed/shamed/bullied by their own fellow alum or (2) were too scared to speak up at all and still choked up when they were reporting to me, often insistent that I keep everything confidential for fear of retaliation.

I can't abide my fellow younger alum in this state. It's unacceptable to me. Because I know firsthand that a bad member experience can upend a young person's life for a long time. I would honestly sleep better at night if my report had been an outlier.

Some of our current board members have been there since before I marched, and there has been no real accountability for this darker side of our member experience this whole time. I've listed, on this forum, how many reports of violations have made their way to my ears from fellow alum who marched anytime between 2004 and now. Sometimes earlier. In case you're still playing at home, the tally is 38, not updated to include last week's new reporters.

I've been in dialogue with VMAPA, DCI, MAASIN, other corps who will remain unnamed for now, and even reached out to Tricia Nadolny. My last post that included which corps I had talked to (and heard little back from) and the names of my abusers was censored. 🤷🏽‍♀️ Lordy if anyone here has a better way to act on this information, I'm all ears.

Edit to add another alumni-external stakeholder resource: https://www.nonprofitpro.com/post/building-engagement-most-important-stakeholder-individuals-we-serve/

Edited May 16, 2023 by scheherazadesghost

[DudleytheWest]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:18 AM, craiga said:

Too much doom and gloom.  If someone really believes that drum corps is either dying or already dead, why on earth would they even bother to come onto DCP and post?  Just move along, seriously.  People have been saying drum corps is dying since the 70s and they are still here, even after a pandemic.

Yes, people have been saying this since the 70s because it's been TRUE since the 70s. Look at the number of corps that were around in the 70s compared with today. DCI does stupid things that make it impossible for corps to survive and compete, such as increasing the membership numbers, props, electronics, etc.... That stuff ONLY benefits the top corps and hurts the lower tier corps. It has been like this since DCI's inception. That's the problem. They've taken away the level playing field and they've taken away prospective members from the lower tier corps to feed the upper tier corps. The lower tier corps don't have the budgets to put on productions that make them competitive. Heck, the lower top 12 corps don't have the budgets to put on productions that can complete with Bluecoats and BD. DCI is frankly stupid, and the corps themselves are stupid.  

I mean good God every corps has to compete in quarters now because there's not enough corps to allow the top 12 from the prior year to sit quarters out. Every year it's getting smaller and smaller.

People have been saying it's the beginning of the end since the 70s. Vanguard IS the END of the END. We have arrived! Buckle up. It's here. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by DudleytheWest

[scheherazadesghost]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:29 AM, scheherazadesghost said:

Only been a month, I spoze.

[Terri Schehr]

10 hours ago, DudleytheWest said:

Yes, people have been saying this since the 70s because it's been TRUE since the 70s. Look at the number of corps that were around in the 70s compared with today. DCI does stupid things that make it impossible for corps to survive and compete, such as increasing the membership numbers, props, electronics, etc.... That stuff ONLY benefits the top corps and hurts the lower tier corps. It has been like this since DCI's inception. That's the problem. They've taken away the level playing field and they've taken away prospective members from the lower tier corps to feed the upper tier corps. The lower tier corps don't have the budgets to put on productions that make them competitive. Heck, the lower top 12 corps don't have the budgets to put on productions that can complete with Bluecoats and BD. DCI is frankly stupid, and the corps themselves are stupid.  

I mean good God every corps has to compete in quarters now because there's not enough corps to allow the top 12 from the prior year to sit quarters out. Every year it's getting smaller and smaller.

People have been saying it's the beginning of the end since the 70s. Vanguard IS the END of the END. We have arrived! Buckle up. It's here. 

Nobody cares about the little guy. The big dog always eats. #### everyone else.  What a noble philosophy we have cultivated.

 “Youth organization”. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Terri Schehr

[scheherazadesghost]

Point of fact: neither DCI's nor VMAPA's missions mention youth. Sure it's intended or implied, but technically neither are obligated by their missions to serve youth directly.

This is why mission statements are important.