When does it end with SCV??????

[gbass598]

On 6/7/2023 at 11:31 PM, Jeff Ream said:

percussion age out rules mirror DCI's age out. guard is different

+ 1 year for clarity for anyone who needs it.

DCI is you can't turn 22 before June 1.

WGI is you can't turn 23 before April 1.

[TheOneWhoKnows]

What is absolutely asinine is that there is an argument about the OP's intentions. Clearly the OP saw that someone involved with Infinity, who just got the hand slapped by WGI, is involved with SCV and created a post displaying the connection. There is no indication whatsoever the OP is trying to blame SCV. It's merely another questionable piece of a puzzle in a ton of unknowns circling regarding SCV. 

Furthermore, it is not hard to understand why people want to see this as a witch hunt when there are multiple threads on this forum attacking SCV. And a handful of people presenting only one side of the story/argument and claiming to represent a vast group of people in doing so. 

The truth is, we don't have all the facts here and we won't get them. 

[scheherazadesghost]

Most other active alum hide their opinions behind a locked Fb group. Fb and Insta are cesspools so Ihave no idea what they're saying, but I'm under the impression they have no problem talking about what is said here. I've always welcomed their opposing opinions, respectfully presented.

But they aren't forthcoming.

I've also never attempted to exaggerate the number of alum that inform my opinion. There are approx 12 alum reporters I'm in contact with. I don't represent their opinions.

Their reports inform my opinion here. Nothing more.

[MikeD]

5 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

You’d have to apply a special kind of logic to actually think the OP is blaming SCV for what Infinity did, versus blaming SCV for continuing to employ as a staff member a person in leadership position at Infinity who seemingly failed to prevent the actions or stop them once in progress.  But nitpicking words to twist meaning is done all the time. 

We will disagree on this. Titling a thread “When does it end with SCV” and posting an article about a WGI group with no written comments, just two photos of the person attached to both leaves it open IMO. If there had been a title aimed at the WGI group with some comments about the connection, including the photos if desired, I’d be more in line with your thoughts. In no way is what happened SCV’s issue. Just MHO. 

[LabMaster]

1 hour ago, MikeD said:

We will disagree on this. Titling a thread “When does it end with SCV” and posting an article about a WGI group with no written comments, just two photos of the person attached to both leaves it open IMO. If there had been a title aimed at the WGI group with some comments about the connection, including the photos if desired, I’d be more in line with your thoughts. In no way is what happened SCV’s issue. Just MHO. 

Hopefully you read back on posts stating the OP is NOTblaming SCV for Infinity behavior.  What is being highlighted is a leader of SCV who is also a leader of Infinity, shows a lack of ability to manage bad behavior and by being unaware or uninterested in the behavior,  shows a leadership flaw that is,  or has been an issue with SCV,  which has a mountain of issues that have resulted in pulling out of 2023.  If SCV, wishes to return in 2024, they should look at the proven failings of their selected leader, so they can right the org in one of the many ways they have been shown to be problematic, despite their rules of behavior for anyone associated with SCV. Staff and member behavior at all times when representing an org.  If you’ve failed here, it follows you will fail (or continue to fail) there.

The criticism is not of SCV, but of the leadership ability of the PERSON who is supposed to lead both orgs.  The thread title is not the point of the commentary.

[MikeD]

2 hours ago, LabMaster said:

 

The criticism is not of SCV, but of the leadership ability of the PERSON who is supposed to lead both orgs.  The thread title is not the point of the commentary.

The title of a thread is indeed important, IMO. That is what my comment was about, esp when the OP made no comments at all in starting the thread. 

I made no value judgement about the qualifications of the person in question, whether or not she should have been promoted to corps director of SCV last September, or her tenure at Infinity and their parent organization.

With the Infinity situation of course it was ridiculous. I don't know the logistics of modern WGI shows and retreats at local shows or champs. What happens behind the scenes and who-goes-where. Obviously the Infinity members were out of control in the gym. Hopefully the Infinity team did a post-mortem of the retreat before the official WGI action. We on DCP do not know, or at least nobody here has posted, anything  of what went on within Infinity. The WGI notification was released on 6/5, so I am not surprised that there has been little released in an official capacity by Infinity to-date, or by Ms Bastante. I would guess there needs to be a lot of behind-the-scenes work done by Infinity before anything official comes out, or actions taken.

What we know is that the event happened. I'd be interested to see what happens down the line by the Infinity parent organization in their analysis and actions. Bottom line is the buck stops at the top, so whatever happened on the gym floor is, at the end of the day, the responsibility of the management team/staff, with the director at the top of the list.

I'm sure SCV management will be very interested in understanding what happened with the person they chose to promote to director, both leading up to the event and what has happened since. After all, she has been with SCV since 2018 and has worked her way up the ladder to her current position.

[Jurassic Lancer]

13 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

It's weird when mods appear to agree with trolls. Or am I misinterpreting you?

I don't like non-alum questioning alum motives when very few of you anons out there have the info to justify your comments. If some of you do, then tell us where we're wrong with facts.

Or why not ask good faith questions of those with more info than you that go somewhere instead of nitpicking how the info was presented? Why are those of us trying to shed light cast as the bad guys out for blood? We can talk to our own corps if we want that treatment.

I'm guessing most naysayers here simply don't like what they're reading; want to protect the weakened image of a beloved corps from its own qualified professional alum; and will therefore readily attempt to discredit those who presented info in a way they don't like. If it's not me, it's the next alum that comes along with info that's difficult to read. And it's not like there's a manual for this situation we can follow.

That's pretty crummy if that's what's going on. I welcome legit correction if I've misinterpreted though.

Wow … mods agreeing with trolls?

I think MikeD made a perfectly valid observation.  Not everyone who questions what is going on in this thread is a troll. I question what the #### is going on, not because I want to plant a SCV flag and call it a day. I want to know what the #### is going on. I’m a non-alum but I still care about member safety, organizational transparency, and the activity at large. And I may have an anon screen name but many here know who exactly I am. I do not appreciate my inquisitiveness as being equated to troll-like behavior, and I am guessing the mod in question doesn’t either. Sorry, but equating MikeD’s observations with troll-like behavior is way beyond the pale for me.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Jurassic Lancer

[LabMaster]

2 hours ago, MikeD said:

The title of a thread is indeed important, IMO. That is what my comment was about, esp when the OP made no comments at all in starting the thread. 

I made no value judgement about the qualifications of the person in question, whether or not she should have been promoted to corps director of SCV last September, or her tenure at Infinity and their parent organization.

With the Infinity situation of course it was ridiculous. I don't know the logistics of modern WGI shows and retreats at local shows or champs. What happens behind the scenes and who-goes-where. Obviously the Infinity members were out of control in the gym. Hopefully the Infinity team did a post-mortem of the retreat before the official WGI action. We on DCP do not know, or at least nobody here has posted, anything  of what went on within Infinity. The WGI notification was released on 6/5, so I am not surprised that there has been little released in an official capacity by Infinity to-date, or by Ms Bastante. I would guess there needs to be a lot of behind-the-scenes work done by Infinity before anything official comes out, or actions taken.

What we know is that the event happened. I'd be interested to see what happens down the line by the Infinity parent organization in their analysis and actions. Bottom line is the buck stops at the top, so whatever happened on the gym floor is, at the end of the day, the responsibility of the management team/staff, with the director at the top of the list.

I'm sure SCV management will be very interested in understanding what happened with the person they chose to promote to director, both leading up to the event and what has happened since. After all, she has been with SCV since 2018 and has worked her way up the ladder to her current position.

Maybe then ask the OP about their title and meaning of the thread.  

Edited June 10, 2023 by LabMaster

[Jeff Ream]

23 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

If the community knew the state this org and activity left some of my fellow alum in, this angry sentiment might better understood, if not forgiven. For example, perhaps you'll recall that one alum reported to me that they developed a Rx drug addiction on tour from the pain of marching. The possibility of that happening again during the opioid crisis is COMPLETELY unacceptable to me. Am I supposed to be nice about any of that?

Reamy, I'm practically Spider-Punk in this situation. I don't do vengeance. I do however help lend power and voice to folks like me that the org apparatus has tried to silence over the decades, if they want it. If that's perceived as vengeance then we have really big problems. Sadly,  this seems to be the stance too many of my fellow alum have taken.

But again, I have less than no control over the others. Few of them seem even know I exist, let alone want to listen to me.

We're not likely to agree on this. Suffice to say that the thing they have in common is a staffer. One like many other staffers in the activity, that struggle to integrate the robust safeguarding practices so desperately needed. And the result of lax safeguarding has been reports that range in severity from:

SCV, Cadets, Pioneer, Phantom, Cavies, BD..........etc.... and those are the ones only fairly commonly known. What about the others too impacted to speak up?

This is not a personal attack on her. If anything I'm extending grace to her by saying she's not alone in this issue... especially if, as you said, WGI didn't have protocol for intervening earlier in the event. It's just further possible evidence that the pageantry arts as a whole must do better to protect the young people they claim to serve.

by this logic then, every single person on the link below and any corps they are associated with should be getting the same heat, as well as several scholastic programs. yes we know SCV has issues. lots of issues, in the board room, in the office, and out in the field with performers and staff. Infinity's issue is theirs.

https://www.infinitypercussion.org/staff

[Jeff Ream]

14 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

It's weird when mods appear to agree with trolls. Or am I misinterpreting you?

I don't like non-alum questioning alum motives when very few of you anons out there have the info to justify your comments. If some of you do, then tell us where we're wrong with facts.

Or why not ask good faith questions of those with more info than you that go somewhere instead of nitpicking how the info was presented? Why are those of us trying to shed light cast as the bad guys out for blood? We can talk to our own corps if we want that treatment.

I'm guessing most naysayers here simply don't like what they're reading; want to protect the weakened image of a beloved corps from its own qualified professional alum; and will therefore readily attempt to discredit those who presented info in a way they don't like. If it's not me, it's the next alum that comes along with info that's difficult to read. And it's not like there's a manual for this situation we can follow.

That's pretty crummy if that's what's going on. I welcome legit correction if I've misinterpreted though.

or people realize not everything is one giant interlocking conspiracy, despite serious issues at both organizations..

 

and people want to blast SCV for hiring her, but this issues just came to light in the last week...so how could SCV know this would happen in Dayton when they hired her? if they had that kind of crystal ball they wouldn't be in the mess they are in