Way Too Early DCI 2024 Discussion

[Jurassic Lancer]

4 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

Whoever scores highest wins

Does that include penalties? 

[Galen]

19 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

I’ll start:   If there is a 4-peat in 2024, it will be awarded to Blue Devils.  

Pretty sure there's a bylaw that says that they get to win at least 2 titles every 3 years.

[MarkHornGA]

The random musings of person who knows enough to be dangerous. 
 

15 Spirit of Atlanta - Continue on their upward trajectory. I think their show this year and the fan support will help attract some more local talent to stay home rather than travel to audition elsewhere. Atlanta is a huge pipeline for talent. Keep building and you’re not far from finals night. 

14 PC - Steadily improving. Keep your core intact. Recruiting and developing talent to execute at the level of the design is crucial. They way under performed at times this season. I love the aspirational approach but make sure your members have the support and training they need to deliver. 

13 Crossmen - Seem to be flatlining and struggling to get over the hump into top 12 land. I expect some staffing changes to come. Too much legacy to go down without a fight. 

12 Blue Knights - Trying to be Bluecoats lite? Show design just didn’t connect this year. Not sure they can sustain that and continue to outpace those just behind them. 

11 Blue Stars - Put together an entire show with the same effect as the last 90 seconds and now we’re talking. Color guard consistency to match what they are being asked to perform. Keep that organizational culture strong! 

10 Troopers - MUST fix guard issues and fight for a more consistent visual performance across the board. Conceptually they were wonderful, but the execution felt sloppy at times. Musically they can be a top 8 corps although they seemed to have some inconsistencies as an ensemble. Some staffing changes might solve some of these issues if they can find the right people to train up their members on the finer details. 

9 Colts - Colts seem to be on a rapid trajectory. It’s hard to imagine how them slowing down. Great org in great shape. I can see them with a recruiting bump after this season. Hinshaw’s drill writing is wonderful. Keep it coming red team!

8 Cavaliers - Brass arrangement and guard were not Cavaliers quality this season. The 2023 show was a nostalgia tour. I don’t know if they really expected to win much with that design. I hope to see them back on the edge of innovation and in the top 5! 

7 Phantom - Design and music content seem to be there, but they need to improve their percussion and overall achievement to really put pressure on the rest. Give the staff time to work through some of these challenges and I’m confident they will find themselves climbing again. 

6 Mandarins - They have all of the foundational pieces in place. Maintain your core staff and keep building on this momentum. I think they will get even more talent as a result of this year and improvements to the content will follow. 

5 Cadets - Cadets get the talent to be in the top four, but they lack the effect that today’s scoring rewards. Show design is going to be crucial if they want to be in championship form. Seems like they are moving in that direction. 

4 Boston - BAC had a championship caliber program. I’m not sure what needs to change to push them that 2 points higher. Percussion was excellent but the book was hard. They just couldn’t play it consistently well on the move. Take the Cavies approach of complimenting the ensemble and showing out at the right moments. 5th at finals is a joke. Second only to Cavies. Guard was stellar. More of that! 

3 Crown - Musically, Crown is there! Visually they were consistently out achieving their content. Maybe beef up the visual program to match the level of the musical content. Guard was great, but always a step behind the others in the top four. Percussion was a mixed bag. I was underwhelmed by their front ensemble and the battery book was a good compliment but nothing to write home about. Another offseason for Mike Jackson and crew to gel should lead to a strong season ahead. 

2 Bluecoats - They were the most unique program by far and did a fantastic job incorporating electronics, narrative, and visual staging. Percussion was a slight weak spot, but that’s not going to win them a gold. I look for Bloo to keep pushing the envelope and stretching the capacity of their MMs. High risk, high reward. Brass and Percussion scores were the only places where they overachieved their content. This is where it comes down to individual members fighting for excellence in every attack and release, every move. I don’t know that they could have designed a better show. It’s the small things at this point. 

1 BD - I expect more of the same level of excellence and design. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. That’s not to say the others are broken, but when you’re number one you’re the standard. 

 

[Jurassic Lancer]

9 minutes ago, MarkHornGA said:

The random musings of person who knows enough to be dangerous. 
 

15 Spirit of Atlanta - Continue on their upward trajectory. I think their show this year and the fan support will help attract some more local talent to stay home rather than travel to audition elsewhere. Atlanta is a huge pipeline for talent. Keep building and you’re not far from finals night. 

14 PC - Steadily improving. Keep your core intact. Recruiting and developing talent to execute at the level of the design is crucial. They way under performed at times this season. I love the aspirational approach but make sure your members have the support and training they need to deliver. 

13 Crossmen - Seem to be flatlining and struggling to get over the hump into top 12 land. I expect some staffing changes to come. Too much legacy to go down without a fight. 

12 Blue Knights - Trying to be Bluecoats lite? Show design just didn’t connect this year. Not sure they can sustain that and continue to outpace those just behind them. 

11 Blue Stars - Put together an entire show with the same effect as the last 90 seconds and now we’re talking. Color guard consistency to match what they are being asked to perform. Keep that organizational culture strong! 

10 Troopers - MUST fix guard issues and fight for a more consistent visual performance across the board. Conceptually they were wonderful, but the execution felt sloppy at times. Musically they can be a top 8 corps although they seemed to have some inconsistencies as an ensemble. Some staffing changes might solve some of these issues if they can find the right people to train up their members on the finer details. 

9 Colts - Colts seem to be on a rapid trajectory. It’s hard to imagine how them slowing down. Great org in great shape. I can see them with a recruiting bump after this season. Hinshaw’s drill writing is wonderful. Keep it coming red team!

8 Cavaliers - Brass arrangement and guard were not Cavaliers quality this season. The 2023 show was a nostalgia tour. I don’t know if they really expected to win much with that design. I hope to see them back on the edge of innovation and in the top 5! 

7 Phantom - Design and music content seem to be there, but they need to improve their percussion and overall achievement to really put pressure on the rest. Give the staff time to work through some of these challenges and I’m confident they will find themselves climbing again. 

6 Mandarins - They have all of the foundational pieces in place. Maintain your core staff and keep building on this momentum. I think they will get even more talent as a result of this year and improvements to the content will follow. 

5 Cadets - Cadets get the talent to be in the top four, but they lack the effect that today’s scoring rewards. Show design is going to be crucial if they want to be in championship form. Seems like they are moving in that direction. 

4 Boston - BAC had a championship caliber program. I’m not sure what needs to change to push them that 2 points higher. Percussion was excellent but the book was hard. They just couldn’t play it consistently well on the move. Take the Cavies approach of complimenting the ensemble and showing out at the right moments. 5th at finals is a joke. Second only to Cavies. Guard was stellar. More of that! 

3 Crown - Musically, Crown is there! Visually they were consistently out achieving their content. Maybe beef up the visual program to match the level of the musical content. Guard was great, but always a step behind the others in the top four. Percussion was a mixed bag. I was underwhelmed by their front ensemble and the battery book was a good compliment but nothing to write home about. Another offseason for Mike Jackson and crew to gel should lead to a strong season ahead. 

2 Bluecoats - They were the most unique program by far and did a fantastic job incorporating electronics, narrative, and visual staging. Percussion was a slight weak spot, but that’s not going to win them a gold. I look for Bloo to keep pushing the envelope and stretching the capacity of their MMs. High risk, high reward. Brass and Percussion scores were the only places where they overachieved their content. This is where it comes down to individual members fighting for excellence in every attack and release, every move. I don’t know that they could have designed a better show. It’s the small things at this point. 

1 BD - I expect more of the same level of excellence and design. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. That’s not to say the others are broken, but when you’re number one you’re the standard. 

 

I think your random musings are dead on. Very good analysis

[corps8294]

The Blue Stars put themselves in a pretty difficult spot for 2024 with their show, this year, and 11th place finish. Everyone else went up in placement and smart show design while the Blue Stars took a risk and it failed...well, it was just enough to keep them in finals. Troopers, Colts, and all those above them are going to be the destination corps. A corps that went form 7th all the way down to 11th probably isn't going to be on the list of the types of members the Blue Stars need to move back up the ladder. Show design needs to be smarter and achievable right out of the gate. Again, I understand the Blue Stars...especially the guard caption...loves to challenge their members; but there needs to be balance between challenge, achievement, and sustainability. Refinement and editing need to be looked at as well. Stuff for the sake of stuff is nothing more than clutter. Things have to have reason or last something the judges and fans can appreciate. There needs to be more impact points. A lot of people have mentioned over the course of the summer that the Blue Stars show was very flat with no peaks, valleys, and moments that just captured the audience and made them stand up. I'm still not sold on the percussion caption, either. It's been a rotating door of ineffective hires. In summary, every area needs to be addressed if the corps wants to move back up; if not, they will just be treading water at the bottom of the Top 12 and eventually drop out. Unlike 2012; if they drop out, again, it's going to be quite difficult for them to make it back in. They have quite the workload in front of them. To be honest, I have more belief in SCV returning to the field, next year, than the Blue Stars doing what it takes to fight their way back up to 7th, 6th, or maybe 5th (pipe dream placement). 

[jwillis35]

10 hours ago, RiverCityAndTroopersFan said:

I think there needs to be a discussion on order of performance. The order that corps perform almost always matches up with their finishing position first corps on is 12th 2nd is 11th and so on and so forth. It should be randomized to maintain some level of parity

This would not even the playing field because it wasn't even when the season started and it's not even when most shows start. Changing the order doesn't do much. To think that putting BD on 1st or 2nd changes things is crazy. They still win. Any of the top 5 or 6 corps could have gone on 1st and they still would have been top 6. Before the season everyone knew who the top 4 corps would be. It was no secret. They had the talent and the experienced staff and design teams. 

Furthermore this is what the regionals are for. The corps come out and perform at all those early shows to get their consistency and design in place. Then there are a few shows that do determine order of performance for San Antonio, then again for Atlanta, and again for DCI East. Ultimately this determines the order of DCI Quarters. Why take that away from the corps who have worked so hard to earn their performance spot?  If a corps has consistently beat another corps the so be it. They get to perform after. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by jwillis35

[denverjohn]

21 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

I’ll start:   If there is a 4-peat in 2024, it will be awarded to Blue Devils.  

But, will it really be a 4-peat since the "3-peat" has an asterisk due to Covid?

[Orwellian Wiress]

1 hour ago, MarkHornGA said:

5 Cadets - Cadets get the talent to be in the top four, but they lack the effect that today’s scoring rewards. Show design is going to be crucial if they want to be in championship form. Seems like they are moving in that direction. 

This right here. I thought their visual stuff was the most lackluster this year.  Can't believe I'm saying this but I miss the 2017 Cadets. 

[Chief Guns]

33 minutes ago, denverjohn said:

But, will it really be a 4-peat since the "3-peat" has an asterisk due to Covid?

And anyone who has an asterisk next to BDs threepeat is either delusional, or just being a hater. 

BD won three consecutive competitive seasons. 

And "IF" they manage to win in 2024, it will be four in a row.

Period. 

[jwillis35]

Personally I enjoyed just about everything with the 2023 season. Not sure there was a show I really didn't like. Congrats to the Blue Devils on their 21st Championship. Congrats to Bluecoats, Carolina Crown, and Boston Crusaders for the nail-biting competition and the fantastic shows. The Cadets, Mandarins, and Phantom all had fantastic and fan friendly shows and gave us so much to look forward to. I got to see Cavaliers live in Pittsburgh and by then the show had really come together. They were a treat. Percussion was WOW, but I enjoyed the whole show. Colts, Troopers, Blue Stars and BK were all amazing as well.

Saw Spirit of Atlanta live and that was one of my favorite shows this year. I absolutely loved the Seattle Cascades. Watching them was a joy and I loved their music. I feel Madison made big improvements with their brass and percussion. They need to get the visual and total show development going. I think they were young and very talented. 

===========

As for the 2024 season here are some ramblings. 

1. When it comes to score and rank if a corps did not place as high this season as they did in 2022 it does not mean they took a step back. Sometimes the competition is super strong, and you never know how judges will read certain things. Take Boston. Last year they were tied for 2nd. This year 4th. Do I think they took a step back? No. Sure, we can argue show design. This idea didn't work, this one did...etc. To me their brass, perc, and guard have not lost any level of talent. In fact I think they were 2nd in brass, percussion and guard in Semifinals. Sometimes you just get a tough judge who catches something or just sees it differently. Bottom line: they have great caption strength and I suspect they will be amazing once again in 2024. 
2. If your favorite corps moved up a notch or two from last summer it doesn't mean the next place up is guaranteed. In 1989 when Phantom Regiment took 2nd a lot of folks thought they were destined for 1st in 1990. Ended up tied for 4th with Blue Devils. Madison won the title in 1988 and fell way back in 1989. The Cadets won in 1990 and fell to 6th in 1991. Bluecoats were making big gains in 2005 (5th), 2006 (4th), then fell to 7th. Then 8th. In 2010 they took 3rd...then fell again. It was not until the Tilt show in 2014 that began a more consistent run for them. Consistency is the most difficult thing in DCI competition. Recruiting, design, teaching, management, money, support, etc. all add up. 
3. In terms of entertainment I feel most of the corps were genuinely trying to give the fans something to enjoy while also being competitive. Hopefully we see more of this in 2024. 
4. Don't let design get in the way of great music and great visual ideas. There were still times during this past season where I felt some shows were designed in such a way (or the theme/concept was too out there) that it made life difficult for staff when cleaning, and also for the designers when rewrites were needed. There are still too many occasions when corps are doing needless body moves that absolutely mean nothing to the show and just add clutter. Stop. Unless it has some real meaning, or just add to a unique visual, it is not necessary just so you can show simultaneous demand. In some cases whatever you gain in demand (if anything) you likely lose in GE or Visual Analysis unless it really makes sense. 
5. Let's hope all the corps have successful off-seasons in terms of funding, retention, recruitment, and all their other ventures.