kdaddy Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: never said the schedule change was bad. just the petty issues. look staff change. lets be real here....look at Cadets 16. if another corps asked if you staff was interested....would you stay there??? Money or no....if it were me...hell no! not every decision is made solely for money. and "poaching" is such a #### word to use...staff have left to go other places since the bgeinning of time. But i'll ask again....if things were so great where someone was....why would they leave? trust me, my employer sucks some days to the point of wanting to dust off the resume. but, despite offers of more money, more this, more that....in the end i have stayed ( for now). Why? because more money doesn't always solve everything. But if the right offer came along...not necessarily money, but culture, environment...yeah i may jump. the corporate world pays people a lot of money to go out and headhunt. Why should drum corps demand fealty and absolute loyalty to stay with one organization just because? so yeah people left Cadets and Crown to go to Boston. Crown is still and has been in the hunt. Cadets are working their way up but lets be honest, their issues were far more off the field than on field. Hell they're luckily to still be in existence. Gino and Colin leaving didn't cause that. The Rennicks and JD Shaw left Phantom Regiment in back-to-back years for Santa Clara Vanguard. I honestly don't remember any Regiment fans being disgruntled, only sad. There was no talk of poaching, as far as I can remember. Even as SCV passed Regiment competitively, I don't remember any ill will. Just one anecdote, but it has parallels Crown/BAC in some ways (e.g., Regiment was pretty consistently top six at that point and only 2-3 years removed from a title, while SCV wasn't). It seems that issues with Crown toward BAC are unique. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL-27 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 3 hours ago, karuna said: People will poo-poo this but the run back to Boston after the BOA clinic sucked. Crown loved doing the parades on the 4th and all but remember there were also YEA shows to soften the blow and they just don't exist anymore. Also Crown now does two more clinics after BOA -- one in the ATL area and then one at WCU. It's actually a much better schedule than hauling ### to Boston and then heading towards to FirstBeat. So whatever the initial reasons for the change (and yes they were petty and childish) , the current tour schedule works way better for them. I don't see them going back. The shows in Boston don’t really work for anyone’s tour schedule other than BAC for the show in July. You could argue that the show in August is an issue for them as well. The show in August only had 4 corps (BAC, Bloo, PR & Mandarins) this year (a strong lineup). The DCI corps need to support each other to keep the activity strong, including doing each other’s shows. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the same corps to make the trip to Boston every year for the reasons you point out. However, perhaps they should all take turns or rotate? In which case maybe it’s time Crown make a visit? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: never said the schedule change was bad. just the petty issues. look staff change. lets be real here....look at Cadets 16. if another corps asked if you staff was interested....would you stay there??? Money or no....if it were me...hell no! not every decision is made solely for money. and "poaching" is such a #### word to use...staff have left to go other places since the bgeinning of time. But i'll ask again....if things were so great where someone was....why would they leave? trust me, my employer sucks some days to the point of wanting to dust off the resume. but, despite offers of more money, more this, more that....in the end i have stayed ( for now). Why? because more money doesn't always solve everything. But if the right offer came along...not necessarily money, but culture, environment...yeah i may jump. the corporate world pays people a lot of money to go out and headhunt. Why should drum corps demand fealty and absolute loyalty to stay with one organization just because? so yeah people left Cadets and Crown to go to Boston. Crown is still and has been in the hunt. Cadets are working their way up but lets be honest, their issues were far more off the field than on field. Hell they're luckily to still be in existence. Gino and Colin leaving didn't cause that. Not sure why you posted all that… pretty much everyone is over the Potter team leaving. My one and only comment here was that Boston fans just can’t stop bringing up Crown. The rest of it is old news. No one cares. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, kdaddy said: It seems that issues with Crown toward BAC are unique. You have to go back in time, but some of the issues between BAC and Crown are similar to when staff from 27th Lancers went to Garfield Cadets. Though financial issues plagued the corps in its final days, 27th lost its competitive edge after so many staff members and marching members went to Garfield. Garfield also had a strong fan base here in Boston which at the time didn't help matters but time healed at least some wounds. I know some 27th alums who marched about that time who love Cadets. I am a Boston Crusaders fan and have been for years. Though I know alums and people associated with the corps, I do not have any formal connections to the corps, so I base what I say more on observations and scuttlebutt. I know some folks associated with Crown, but not well enough they would share inside info with me. I do know that at least in 2017, Crown boycotted BAC shows. Crown did not keep that secret. Gino C's and Colin M's departure from Cadets was not a huge surprise, but the Crown guard staff departure was a surprise and the departure was bitter. That would have been at a time that corps like Crown, Bloo, and Spirit came to the Northeast, set up camp, worked on their shows, competed and took part in parades. A free day in Boston around July 4th was a huge plus, and fans were very receptive to Crown. 2020 was cancelled but prior to changes were made in the tour that have remained which made the Northeast leg of the past impossible, so I think scheduling has as much to do with Crown not coming East as hard feelings. Edited October 3, 2023 by Tim K 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 On 10/1/2023 at 3:19 PM, karuna said: Do you actually read the Crown thread (just kidding I know you do!) I know you were not talking to me specifically. I have been accused of having the mob mentality from Boston on many occasions in the past from Crown fans, so I will chime in here. Some (not all) Crown thread posters are toxic towards others who come into their little thread and read posts. Their negative angst is very apparent and quite vocal. So as far as some of the Crown fanbase is concerned, they are irrelevant IMO. I will continue to enjoy Crown from a competitive standpoint, but definitely not some of their fans. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdn Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 2 hours ago, DAL-27 said: The DCI corps need to support each other to keep the activity strong, including doing each other’s shows. Looking forward to corps east of Denver performing in the west coast shows…. Just kidding. The cost and logistics are daunting, made even more so if the shortened tour season continues, and in the current financial reality it is unlikely to happen. Yet I am probably not alone out here in the west when I say I miss the midwestern, eastern, and southern corps doing a western tour once in a while. It was really a treat to see Crown, Crossmen, Phantom Regiment, Madison Scouts, and Cavies at Stanford between 2013-2019, and I know others came west before those years. My partner came with me to Stanford 2013 because I wanted to go. It was his first show ever. Upon seeing e=mc2, he immediately became a huge fan of the activity and still is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Lancer Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 2 hours ago, karuna said: Not sure why you posted all that… pretty much everyone is over the Potter team leaving. My one and only comment here was that Boston fans just can’t stop bringing up Crown. The rest of it is old news. No one cares. If everyone is over the Potter team leaving, why does Crown-North keep popping up in the Crown threads? 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilme861 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 4 hours ago, kdaddy said: The Rennicks and JD Shaw left Phantom Regiment in back-to-back years for Santa Clara Vanguard. I honestly don't remember any Regiment fans being disgruntled, only sad. There was no talk of poaching, as far as I can remember. Even as SCV passed Regiment competitively, I don't remember any ill will. Just one anecdote, but it has parallels Crown/BAC in some ways (e.g., Regiment was pretty consistently top six at that point and only 2-3 years removed from a title, while SCV wasn't). It seems that issues with Crown toward BAC are unique. There are PLENTY of Crown fans, including myself, that have never had a problem with Boston after the staff change. As you said with the Rennicks and Shaw, it was sad to see them go but I was more excited to see what the changes would bring to Crown and Boston. I had the same excitement to see what the percussion changes at Crown this past year would do as well. I have NO problems at all with people at Crown that consider Boston a "rival" (and vice-versa) as they have been battling each other for the medals for the last few years. DCI is a competition and that type of rivalry is great I think. But those that don't like the other corps because of the staff change from 7 years ago now...come on now! Get over it cause it's like toddlers fighting over a toy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jurassic Lancer said: If everyone is over the Potter team leaving, why does Crown-North keep popping up in the Crown threads? Because of exactly what started this little sidetrack: Boston fans constantly bringing up Crown. Additional reasons: (1) their shows and uniforms look precisely like Crown shows of the past (2) their admin seems to hire everyone that Crown parts ways with (most recently Hannum and Ancona). Since Crown moved on from those guys there's no angst here just an observation. (3) Boston adopted Crown's spring training regime (ie move in to a small remote college, live in the dorms, etc... I see posts from Boston fans bragging about all this but it's just an exact copy of what Crown has done for many, many years at Gardner Webb. I mean it makes sense because it works well but it's just exactly the same setup as that team had at Crown (4) It's funny as hell . How's that for a start? And I know I'm going to get the standard reply (Boston has their own identity blah blah blah). Let me tell you -- that identity may be there internally but from everything you see publicly...well it's there for anyone to see. Sic sequitur Crown North. It's not an insult -- it's literally a description. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery I guess. <donning flame suit now> ps. sorry but you asked... Edited October 4, 2023 by karuna 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOC Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 4 hours ago, lawdn said: Yet I am probably not alone out here in the west when I say I miss the midwestern, eastern, and southern corps doing a western tour once in a while. It was really a treat to see Crown, Crossmen, Phantom Regiment, Madison Scouts, and Cavies at Stanford between 2013-2019, and I know others came west before those years. In 2012 Boston held their ST in CA and began their season out West. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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