bradrick Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Ever See Suncoast sound in 1988. 1) you had a young girl as the main character 2) you were witnessing her nightmares 3) the show had original music 4) the show was very innovative Doh! I was just talking about this with TommySopranoContra the other night. Suncoast's 88 show was amazing and artful and had some obvious artistic similarities to 2005 Cadets. I loved 88 Suncoast. And I get the feeling that I might have loved Cadets if I'd been able to see them live a few times. (Which is exactly what it took for me to really "get" 88 Suncoast. Now, it's one of my all time favorite shows.) From what I've been reading all over DCP, I think it's possible IMO that part of what's going on (stand down with the flamethrowers. I said PART not ALL) is the Cadets are being judged because of a prejudice against George Hopkins and the direction people think he is pushing the activity. (look at all the references to amps and woodwinds) What if in 1988, Suncoast had been in the same position of having a controversial director who people were very vocal about disliking his "new ideas". Ya think maybe more people would have rejected their attempt to do something completley off-the-wall? I wonder... hmmm... New Cadets t-shirt idea: "Cadets: Judge the corps, not the Director." B) P.S. If you didn't "get" the Cadets this year and you have no beef with Hopkins, then don't flame me. I'm obviously not talking about you. P.S.S. If however you feel about Hopkins doesn't interfere with your evaluation of his corps, then don't flame me. I'm not talking about you. P.S.S.S. Everyone else, just think about it. It's just something to think about. P.S.S.S.S. I think it's a valid consideration. And it's only my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Bawker, are you a Spock's Beard fan? If so, you rule! Heh. I thought about that when I saw this avatar out there. I had a suitemate in college that was a DJ on the college radio station who absolutely adored them. I mean, like, worshipped them. Even after Neal Morse left. Actually, I was just trying to find a suitably "evil-Renegad-ish" avatar for DCA's... and what's more evil than "Mirror, Mirror" Spock? :P ...and now, back to your regularly scheduled thread. ^0^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I love how there are nine pages and barely any of the posts touch the subject ie: innovation ! This isnt about wether they are good or not, liked or not, deserved to win or not. A ) They were good, IMO B ) Many did like them, IMO C ) THey did deserve to win. Now, can people strip their attitudes and discuss/debate the facts ?? You can not ignore that this show came before in the high school level, it just shows flaws in your deductin and reasoning, its a fact. Visual design and judges opinions still do not have anything to do with innovation. judges can like it, especially if its written for them, they will give the numbers required. The design is not perfect, innovative, not even the best ever. Members dont need to "throw down" or try an "intimidate" others into submission or silence. Congratulations, you won, you deserved, you performed on an extremely high level...I do not have to fall in line or kiss your feet to give you your credit, I can back up my statments in person...I always do. I have no qualms with George Hopkins, I know him, I have spoken to him numerous times, and it wasnt always "rah rah" and there were quite a few times he look at me with an upturned brow (LOL) SO what ! He's human, so am I, and hes an adult, he can handle different opinions, he can take criticism, its the real reason my review was posted on his blog. Again, Borg..I mean, Cadet fanatics, get over yourself, your corps, no coprs walk on water. All corps offer something positive, and all corps are subject to criticism. Now, can you get back to the topic and debate the innovation ? ~G~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl306 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I for one thought that Dancer in the Dark was amazing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Not bashing Cadets...I really liked their show.I was under the impression that only the last movement was original music...and even that was based on Barber's Medea, so it wasn't completely original. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Liquid was completely original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Ok, I'll chime in nicely and give my opinion. 1. I loved the Cadets show this year and I found it exciting, engaging, a little innovative, weird, dark at times, and hauntingly beautiful in the ballad. And it was performed at a level that very few corps will every reach (think BD 86, BD 94, and Cavaliers 2002). 2. The show does have some innovative ideas, but I think we spend too much time debating them. I guess it depends on how you wish to look at innovation. To me I look at it this way: they innovated with their uniform, they innovated with the use of whistling, and they innovated with the rap in the drum solo. Now, to what degree do we call this innovation? Good question. Some would not call it innovation, but to my thinking no corps has ever done what the Cadets did with their uniform. Sure, Sky Ryders used two uniforms for effect in their 1987 West Side Story show, so that has been done, but the duality of the Cadets uniform and how it was used is a first for the activity. Yes, this was innovative. With the whistling one can make an argument that having a person whistle has been done, although other than Cavaliers 2005 James Bond show I cannot think of other shows to use this type of effect. But to open a show with it, even if it was their warm up, and to use it as much and as effectively as the Cadets did is somewhat innovative. Finally, the rap, as it was performed in their drum solo, has never been done like that in the history of the activity. Yes, drummers have been dutting for years, and the amping has been around now for two years, but the way the Cadets used a rap-like inflection and the speaking of the rudiments is certainly a first in the activity...hence innovative. Now, honestly I think G has a point. The show doesn't strike me as boldy innovation so much as just darn good. I think what the Cadets did was take a lot of ideas that have been used in the activity before, but they use them to great effect and perhaps add their own little twist. Most of what they deliver in their 2005 show is solid drum corps with past innnovative concepts that have been perfectly tweaked for this production. Props are not new, doing a weird show is not new, using the uniform for visual effect is really not new (although it doesn't often get used as the Cadets did this past summer), and the narration, amping, and drum speak is becoming quite common as well. The genius of the Cadets show is how they took past ideas and concepts, merged them with their theme, and tweaked all of it to create a show that perhaps feels more innovative than it really is. This is called not reinventing the wheel, but improving/tweaking its design, and the Cadets did this to great effect this year. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 The genius of the Cadets show is how they took past ideas and concepts, merged them with their theme, and tweaked all of it to create a show that perhaps feels more innovative than it really is. This is called not reinventing the wheel, but improving/tweaking its design, and the Cadets did this to great effect this year.Jonathan <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Brilliant, Jonathan. ~G~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAMystreaux Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Now, can people strip their attitudes and discuss/debate the facts ?? Ready when you are. You can not ignore that this show came before in the high school level, it just shows flaws in your deductin and reasoning, its a fact. The concept did, the show did not. We've been through this. Again, Borg..I mean, Cadet fanatics, get over yourself, your corps, no coprs walk on water. All corps offer something positive, and all corps are subject to criticism. Like you are any different. . .get over yourself. <**> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^Michael^ Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I love how there are nine pages and barely any of the posts touch the subject ie: innovation ! <snip> Now, can you get back to the topic and debate the innovation ? ~G~ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :::looking at thread subject::: The Zone ... not seeing innovation in the subject (Yeah, I know - it's mentioned in the first post) I'm just sayin'... Again, Borg..I mean, Cadet fanatics, get over yourself, your corps, no coprs walk on water. All corps offer something positive, and all corps are subject to criticism. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Also, I wonder where Stephanie is with her earlier wrath about those who label others? Hmmm.... Yeah, I know - it depends on who is being labeled.... Oh well..... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomFanT10 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 (edited) I enjoyed The Zone...as far as the "Cadets turned BOA" idea...I'm VERY much opposed to over the top gimmicks and propped out shows in the marching band realm. Having said that, it would seem logical that I would just HATE this show...but the playing and marching level made up for what I disliked in the "door" and all the added visual stuff. I came to the conclusion that what I hate most about BOA is seeing bands succeed because they had props and voice-overs that did NOT actually do anything for the show or its concept...The Zone was one of my favorite shows this season because everything in there had a purpose (except possibly the drumspeak, which was pretty cool anyway IMO) AND the playing/moving was really really really good. (That tenor lick...whoa!) Innovative? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how you define it. Very little under the sun is new. I think that even though there was stuff or concepts that have been laid on the table before, this is the first time any show has pulled so many different (not NEW) ideas together...Maybe "unique" is a better word...It IS innovative in its approach. In citing other corps that have used the various elements that the Cadets managed to bind together, one is really pointing out the exceptions to the rule. How many shows have just wandered off down the long trail of memory only to be forgotten and pigeonholed into the "traditional"/"it's all been done before" genre? The Cadets weren't the first, but in comparison to most shows, its something that will be remembered. I suppose it all depends on your definition of "innovative". Everyone is going to see things differently; everyone has been exposed to different influences. Love it or hate it, the 2005 season is over. Only time will tell us whether The Zone marks a change in style for DCI as a whole (be it "good" or "evil") or whether it will fade into the back of people's minds as a cute idea that just didn't cut it. Edited September 1, 2005 by PhantomFanT10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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