Yorkvillain Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 That was the year they won this DCI Title ( and Percussion ) . Didn't the Cadets win percussion in 2002 (the middle year of their percussion three-peat)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyonepointthree Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 No, Ghost. That would be the 2002 the Cavaliers "Frameworks" show. They won with a 99.150, one of the highest scores in DCI history. That was the year they won this DCI Title ( and Percussion ) by planting their snare line, tenors, basses, etc in the middle of the show production, in the right, far backfield, with their backs facing the audience, and not playing anything at all on their Drums there for well over 3 minutes as they stood motionless. It worked for them however that year, as the Visuals by the others was positively outstanding. Now.... could the Cavaliers have won themselves ( or any other DCI Corps of today ) a DCI Title if their Guard stood in the far right backfield and stood motionless with their backs to the audience for over 3 minutes ? I know, I know, its a silly question, as of course a Corps couldn't win themselves a DCI Title with the Guard motionless for that long, in the back of the field, like that. Which only provides yet another concrete example that validates what I have been saying for awhile now on here as to where the most points are to be had on today's DCI judging sheets. However, my great liking of that 2002 Cavaliers Frameworks show didn't have anything to do with the Drummers not playing anything at all for over 25% of the timed competition. I was able to look past that.... and apparently, so wern't the judges. If you can get away with not playing anything at all on your musical instrument, and additionally not moving for 1/4th of your show, because you play your instrument well the other 3/4ths of the time ( and your Visuals and Guard throughout are outstanding ), why not design shows like this ? Especially, if these Visual oriented shows gets you into the winners circle, more oftentimes than not. Very confusing post. 2002 Cavaliers did not win percussion. They also did not "plant" the battery percussion at all. During the Frameworks ballad, the battery played, using different rolls to create textures under the brass playing. You are confusing Frameworks with Four Corners. In the Four Corners show, the percussion did indeed get out of the way for the guard and brass, while attaching their hi-hat cymbals that they carried around the rest of the show. Their "planting" was appropriate, considering that their entrance back to the field from where they were "planted" was the introduction in to the third corner. And no, they did NOT win percussion that year either. 2001, 2002, and 2003 were all Cadets percussion title years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) To eliminate any confusion from Finals over 15 years ago, I did go back and look at the shows and the recap scores from 2000-2002, and I did have the dates and scores confused. So, to correct the record, it was the 2001 Cavaliers show " Four Corners " in which the Cavaliers won themselves a DCI Title with a score of 98.350. They finished 2nd in Percussion, and won the all important Guard caption. It was THIS season's DCI show ( 2001, not 2002) in which the Cavaliers planted their Percussion section in the far right, backfield, with their backs to the audience, for over 3 minutes in the middle of the show, and without the snares, tenors, bass Drums playing their Drums, nor moving a muscle during that time. This was approx. 25% of the timed competition. I agree, this did work well for the Corps theme however, and visually the show was stunning, and the Guard was outstanding throughout, winning this all important caption. I enjoyed this show immensely, as it was highly entertaining for me personally. All this said, my central point here should not be lost. That is, it would be inconceivable for any DCI Corps to win a DCI Title then.. or now.... if they have their GUARD ( not most of their Percussion sections ) remain completely motionless for a quarter of the show. If anyone might disagree with this central point ( that goes to the importance of the Guard and the Visuals to the scores and the placements ) we can certainly listen to why they believe this to be so, and more importantly, what modern day DCI seasons has a Corps won a DCI Title in which most, if not all, of their Guard is seen completely motionless for a quarter of the show. Edited February 17, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afd Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 To eliminate any confusion from Finals over 15 years ago, I did go back and look at the shows and the recap scores from 2000-2002, and I did have the dates and scores confused. So, to correct the record, it was the 2001 Cavaliers show " Four Corners " in which the Cavaliers won themselves a DCI Title with a score of 98.350. They finished 2nd in Percussion, and won the all important Guard caption. It was THIS season's DCI show ( 2001, not 2002) in which the Cavaliers planted their Percussion section in the far right, backfield, with their backs to the audience, for over 3 minutes in the middle of the show, and without the snares, tenors, bass Drums playing their Drums, nor moving a muscle during that time. This was approx. 25% of the timed competition. I agree, this did work well for the Corps theme however, and visually the show was stunning, and the Guard was outstanding throughout, winning this all important caption. I enjoyed this show immensely, as it was highly entertaining for me personally. All this said, my central point here should not be lost. That is, it would be inconceivable for any DCI Corps to win a DCI Title then.. or now.... if they have their GUARD ( not most of their Percussion sections ) remain completely motionless for a quarter of the show. If anyone might disagree with this central point ( that goes to the importance of the Guard and the Visuals to the scores and the placements ) we can certainly listen to why they believe this to be so, and more importantly, what modern day DCI seasons has a Corps won a DCI Title in which most, if not all, of their Guard is seen completely motionless for a quarter of the show. I totally agree with you about whether a guard in today's DC shows can do that. No they can't of course. BD's success since 2008 had been largely due to the success of their guard. They have won 8 straight guard captions. In those 8 years they have 5 golds and 3 silvers. Add 2007 which they didn't win guard but was competitive in the caption. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I really like what they did the last two years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Yesterday I saw the multi cam video of Immortal (2014) for the first time. Our satellite feed at the theater crashed and we missed them, and I'd only heard the CD's to now. Holy cow is that show amazingly better with the visual - it checks all the boxes of "classic" Cavaliers shows. I was highly impressed - probably have it right up there with Samurai in my personal Cavaliers pantheon. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) I totally agree with you about whether a guard in today's DC shows can do that. No they can't of course. BD's success since 2008 had been largely due to the success of their guard. They have won 8 straight guard captions. In those 8 years they have 5 golds and 3 silvers. Add 2007 which they didn't win guard but was competitive in the caption. BD used to win a lot of DCI tItles in the 70's, 80's principally as a result of their outstanding Brass and Drumlines. Then, in the 90's, the paradigm shifted, and the Guard's & Visuals began to take hold. BD was caught a bit off guard, as the Cavaliers began to usher in this more Visual oriented DCI era. But to BD's credit, ever the flexible, they then adjusted to this changed paradigm, and by the mid 2000's era they began to develop killer Visuals too. Today, BD.... just as you said.... most years win Guard in DCI. And thats positioned them well competitively now to be the odds on favorite to win it all every year in DCI. Edited February 17, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I totally agree with you about whether a guard in today's DC shows can do that. No they can't of course. BD's success since 2008 had been largely due to the success of their guard. They have won 8 straight guard captions. In those 8 years they have 5 golds and 3 silvers. Add 2007 which they didn't win guard but was competitive in the caption. Or is it that you have to be pretty much at very least competitive in ALL areas to be in that top tier? No doubt visuals have a huge factor in outcomes BUT if people think so or not , if the numbers said it or not , that's been like this for decades. If anyone thinks the 27th guard back in the day didnt play into the fact of corps success then there's not much else to say. JMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Or is it that you have to be pretty much at very least competitive in ALL areas to be in that top tier? "Top tier" ? Yes. Sure. However...can a Corps win a modern DCI Title finishing 6th in Brass and/ or Percussion ? Yes. Absolutely. Its been done as recently as as 2013. But, can you win a modern DCI Title finishing 6th in Guard ? No way. There's not a snowballs chance in Hell of winning a modern day DCI Title with a 6th place finish in Guard. If a Corps finishes 6th in Guard, you can just about forget even the thought of even medaling as well,, no matter how good the Brass and Percussion sections are. If someone thinks a Corps can win a modern day DCI Title with a 6th place finish in Guard, then wow... don't know what we could further do to help bring them back from that delusional fantasy of theirs, as its just not in the cards for a Corps to win a modern day DCI title with a 6th place Guard ( as can be done with a 6th place Percussion and/ or Brass. ) Edited February 17, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Top tier ? Yes. Can you win a modern DCI Title finishing 6th in Percussion ?. Yes. Its been done as recently as a couple of years ago. But can you win a modern DCI Title finishing 6th in Guard ? No way. Not a snowballs chance in Hell. Maybe because maybe percussion is more singular and guard covers a multitude of captions and bleeds into almost every aspect of the production. This was finally recognized quite sometime ago ( thankfully ) this of course can work for or against a corps. So we might agree based on the distribution of responsibilities. Edited February 17, 2016 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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