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I got it. 4 people = cymbal lines for everyone!

Mandatory full judging panels for ALL DCI shows. Halfazz size early season judging panels with no Percussion judge.. or no Brass Judge... or no Guard judge... or some combination lack thereof, sends a message of... small time. Its just dopey to attempt to properly judge a Drum& Bugle Corps competition with no Brass or Drum judge for these specific captions. DCI never used to allow this either. DCI Corps have a kazillon people on their payroll in staffs now... The Corps now are big, big,... BIG...in every way imaginable these days now too. But in order to penny pinch, they allow the kids who are busting their arse to be judged by SMALLER judging panels now that would never have been permitted in previous DCI eras ? Whoa, I know most seem ok with this, but its just so...... small time..... to penny pinch on the costs of the judging of the competitions, imo. The kids pay a lot of bucks now to participate in these scored competitions. The least DCI and the Show Sponsors and the Corps themselves should do is have the adults in charge match the kids and their families commitment to see to it that DCI halfazz size judging panels become a thing of the past, where someday the next generation will look back and ask..... " what the hell were THEY thinking ? " ( on the ridiculousness of allowing the usage of halfazz size judging panels with no Guard/ Brass/ Drums judges in scored competitions. )

Sad day, another year without pyrotechnics. I just want my Rammstein show to happen. :(

I don’t like the first four. I’m good with the rest. Jim likes the ordinal proposal. Fine. I’ll let him stay here anyway.

I doubt anyone cares but here’s my thoughts on each proposal: 1. Adding four members won’t hurt, they should atleast be truthful about the reasoning behind the proposal though: they just want more members to be able to help setup and move props around during a show 2. Increasing to 15 finalists is a stupid stupid idea. Everyone gets a trophy. How are they going to fit 15 corps onto Lucas Oil for awards? 3. Interesting proposal from Will Pitts. Seeing that he has gone through multiple seasons as a leader in DCI, he probably has more insight than a lot of those on DCP do about the dynamics that occur in corps at the beginning of a season. I’m just not sure how not having official scoring will influence ticket purchases at the beginning of the season. I’m 50/50 on it 4. Of course Hopkins would propose the dumbest one of them all. Ordinals? Really? That’s not going to do anything to stop one judge from influencing an outcome. If anything, it could make things even worse, taking the nuance right out of it. 5. Annual rules congress is a good one. I don’t see a reason why not. Especially with the rate of change in trends in DCI. 6. This is THE proposal. If only one of them can pass THIS HAS TO BE IT. Bravo to Martin from Cavies for bringing it to the table, the excess amplification has to go. 7. I like the proposal to have a Brass 2 judge at larger competitions, but not if that means proposal #8 is passed too. If there is a separate brass judge for the ensemble, then there’s no need to have two music analysis judges. At that point, keep the two percussion judges and keep music analysis as it is while implementing any new verbiage from proposal 9

#1: I'm OK with this. It's a very small increase, so it wouldn't bother me at all if this passed. #2: No... IMO, this is problematic from both a competitive (corps would automatically be making Finals for the first time the first year it goes into effect) and a logistical (how the heck would 15 corps fit on the field at retreat?) standpoint. #3 and #4: No and no. There's a reason why the hidden recaps failed in 2016. #5: I don't care either way, there seems to be a lot of change every season regardless. #6 and #7: YES and YES. #6 was without a doubt one of the biggest problems of the 2017 season, and #7 would make it way easier to judge the brass from up high (i.e. projecting the sound & preventing excessive synth goo). Thank you Michael Martin, I hope both of these get passed! #8: Didn't this get proposed in 2016 as well? I recall I didn't really like it then, but then again things have changed a bit. Right now I don't care, I can see the arguments for and against. #9: YES. FINALLY electronics and amping can be acknowledged in a score not named GE. TL;DR I'm pulling for #6, #7 and #9, don't care about #1, #5 and #8, and am pretty much against #2, #3, and #4. (EDIT: I elevated the status of #8 from "do not want" to "don't care.")

1 1992 Big gap Tie of all years Chuck Naffier arranged for Bones. Z

i understand his POV. My age out opportunity was lost because i had to face real life situations. I ended up back in DCA that summer, with what ended up to be a very disappointing ending ( for me and the corps), especially after sitting in Buffalo 3 weeks prior crying while i watched what should have been me out there. But DCi does not understand the damage they do to DCA by promoting DCA as a step back. For too many kids, it's the only way they can march for a variety of reasons. and while running a DCA corps themselves, some of those expressing that view that hurts DCA is the YEA organization themselves

I found a story about this online...although it doesn't answer your question..I suppose some newer folks have not heard the story...apparently they had another "new" ending that GZ wrote that he hated...they were in Massachusetts according to the DM account for this new ending cross to cross...

Every corps could use more singers

I’m not convinced 15 corps is something I can tolerate. 12 is hard to endure. Cut it to ten and I’ll only miss two corps before I take my seat.

They’re just throwing numbers around to give some a warm and fuzzy, but it doesn’t change placement. Ordinals saves everyone of the grief of learning you lost by five hundreds of a point.

From Brad's facebook page. "Well, my first rules proposal is out in the wild, so I thought I would elaborate just a bit more than the small snippet included in the DCI article. My proposal is to increase the maximum membership size of a DCI corps from 150 to 154. This proposal came about after a series of discussions with Russ Gavin over the summer about needing an additional conductor, but not having any available membership positions to do so. The original idea was to make it so conductors do not count towards the 150 limit, but that just opened up a can of worms about what constitutes a conductor. As we put numbers to paper, it came down to the addition of 4 marching members as solving the most common section breakdown pressure points. For the past few years, the Blue Stars have been using the following: 80 brass 37 guard 31 percussion 2 conductors In any given year it might be 30 percussion and 3 conductors or some other small variation, but our goal at the start of the year has been close to that breakdown. But, we would really like to have 80 brass and 40 guard without having to reduce the percussion section. That's just us. Other corps may want to experiment with small vocal choirs, or not have to sacrifice a cymbal section to march 80 brass, or want to have a year with 12 snares, or any number of combinations. And adding 4 was just enough to open up these possibilities. I've already received a couple questions about logistics. Most corps are chartering buses now, and bus capacities are 54-56 people per bus (162-168 seats). This proposal very specifically keeps the total corps number below the common capacity of three buses. The truth is, for most corps these folks are already on tour. They are already traveling and eating. They already have uniforms and equipment. They are already training and practicing with the group. They're called alternates right now. This proposal gives 4 more people the opportunity to get on the field per drum corps without radically altering what we already do. I will be interested in hearing the dialog at the upcoming rules congress and my hope is the proposal will be passed for implementation in 2018."

154 is still even ... as was 128

Fans for early season shows will watch Corps exhibitions... not competitions. MM's themselves will perform in exhibitions, not competitions. Judges commentary will carry the same weight as anyone here's commentary on these early season exhibitions. As such, the halfazz size judging panels could be reduced even further. Who needs judges at all in such a wacky non competition scenario as this ? lol. At early season retreats, I hope every Corps gets at least a Participation Trophy for their performance there... lol! . What a swell idea/ proposal.... lol! Why stop at July 1st too ? Why not move it just a few weeks more to the following month ? To say August 11th or so ? Maybe thats the long range plan. This proposal is the " pitts ", imo.... lol!

lots of pain in in that scoring thats all can tell you.

But what about 2018- 2028 ?

Breaking them down into "Agree," "Agree, but Can See the Logic for No," "Disagree but Can See the Logic for Yes," and "Ummm...wat?": Agree: 5) Annual Rules Congress (Kevin Shah, BK) -- YES PLEASE. It would save us the minor tremor of terror all of us had when Hop noted that because corps have purchased things already amplification wouldn't be able to be addressed before the 2020 Congress. 6) Brass Amplification (Michael Martin, Cavies) -- Also a YES PLEASE. I'd extend it to 12 at a time, personally, but VERY YES on this, though I'm not sure how you'd enforce it, unless T&P was given a monitor for the sound system. 8) Percussion adjudication and Music Analysis (Kevin Shah, BK) -- Getting field sampling of percussion is important. We've had that debate. Moving the drum judge back on the field and splitting music analysis into two captions (one brass, one percussion) at regionals/championships would handle the "are we addressing drums correctly" question. I'd similarly be ok with splitting visual analysis into two people, one more marching/maneuvering-focused, one more guard focused. 9) Update the Music Analysis Sheet (Kevin Shah, BK) -- Agreed, especially with the things that he specifically mentions (electronics) Agree, But See the Logic for No 7) Brass 2 (Michael Martin, Cavies) -- Field-level brass adjudication doesn't sufficiently monitor the ensemble. I could see the argument for addressing this as part of redoing the Music Analysis caption, though. Disagree, But See the Logic for Yes 3) No scoring before July (Pitts) -- yes to all the things you said in your reasoning, but that's always been true, and it's not like early season scores have ever mattered that much. That said, I could agree with possibly using the system mentioned in proposal (5) before July 1st, as a compromise here. 4) Ordinals only, no scores (Hopkins) -- I see the reasoning for wanting to balance relative judge weights out, if for no other reason than (as I believe I've discussed in the past) visual judges are more inclined to give higher scores than music judges (see: the number of max scores given in visual achievement captions vs the number given in music achievement captions). That said, some times one group really is just that much better than another and that should be reflected accordingly. Having done four years of high school marching band under ordinal rules (Texas UIL), it kinda sucks. That said, could be applicable before July 1. Ummm...wat 1) Expand to 154 (Furlano) -- yo, just march 76 brass and it'll be fine. Or knock out some synth players if you really need 80/40. 2) Expand Finals to 15 (Cesario) -- start with where you'd put them on the field for retreat. Then go on to how long Finals would take. And 13-15 already get the perk of being in the movie theater; that seems like a big enough bump.

The two I really don't like is no scoring before July 1st. The other one proposed by GH is no scores at all. Only ranking 1st to last and so on. Ordinals only with the exception of GE?

2001's "Late Night Jazz" is not only my favorite Crossmen show, but one of my all-time favorite DCI shows to listen to.

CT won DCA Class 'A' in 2017 without competing in a DCA show prior to prelims. In fact their highest DCI score was used for seeding in prelims (first corps on). CT provides DCA sheets to the contest director - judges understand the DCA sheets for evaluation. I have to disagree that DCI scores don't help DCA corps. CT embraces the opportunity to compete and perform in both DCI and DCA venues. CT will have four (4) DCI shows and two (2) DCA shows in 2018 prior to prelims. Summer Music Games 6/25, DCI Northern Kentucky 7/14, Legends Drum Corps Invitational 7/29, Soaring Sounds 39 7/30, and two DCA shows, Columbus Ohio and Atlanta Georgia with dates TBD. DCI venues provide CT members with the opportunity to perform with DCI's best World and Open Class corps, many are peers with CT members. In addition, excellent recruiting opportunities, large crowds of enthusiastic fans (very well attended), highest level of adjudication with remarkable feedback , and within reasonable geographic areas to Cincinnati at a minimum incurred cost to the CT organization. It's a win-win and the approach has paid-off in allowing CT to grow in talent and increased membership. IMO a good philosophy by a experienced administration. I'm looking forward to their staff and show announcement, and/or their plans for the up coming 2018 season. I believe we will all be surprised.

disqualified doesnt count. see 75,76,77

Favorites...all of them. 1992- The first "really good" drum corps I saw in my life. Still years later, that show is INCREDIBLE!!! The percussive groove Thurston wrote underneath basically the entire show is just tasty. Then there's the percussion feature...pure groove and aggression (I mean seriously, how many high school band students stood behind a marimba and tried to get that mallet part down to start that whole thing)!!! Then the ending with the question mark, and one of the very few "fan screams" that wasn't just stupid..."Crossmen drumliiiiiiiiiiine" then then *ding* 1998- The opener was cooking, and the whole show was "toe-tapping" fun. 2012- Because Crossmen were BACK!!! It was one of the only times I ever cried because of a drum corps show. Sitting in the stands that night at Finals, and knowing that they were back, and feeling the energy from the members, was amazing (I still think the Semis run was a bit better, IMHO).

I'm hoping for another thematic variation of the classic look, but not nearly as crazy as last year's look.

Favorites 1) 1998. Because that pit feature makes me cry basically every time I listen to it. (Related: I was in pit.) 2) 1992. Pretty much inimpeachable. 3) 2002. Heat of the Day is fun. So is Strawberry Soup. 4) 2014. The new uniforms were great. Musical selections were delightful, especially with Caravan woven throughout. The Maltese Cross --> 40 --> park and park was bloody delightful. 5) 2012. THAT SCREAMER. Delightful music, pretty solid drill...and dang was it nice to see them in Finals again. HM: 1997. Because you have to at least acknowledge their highest score ever. 2005. Because Classical Gas is fun. Least favorites: 1) 2009. Crossmen...you're the Crossmen. Why are you doing Twilight: the Drum Corps Show with Medea and Evanescence? Just...just be the Crossmen, not the RRHS Drum corps. 2) 2010. No seriously, stop trying to be the RRHS drum corps.

Yes, but I think that cut was only made to the DVD/Bluray set, not the CD's. I'm listening now to the show and I think its all intact audio wise. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Nice comment. I think I agree. Just what makes me "feel something" is still pretty fuzzy. BD, SCV, Cavies grabbed me every time I saw them last summer. I felt great after those shows. Not so much after several other finalists, even though I appreciated their good performances. But now hoping they all grab me in 2018.

no Lenny's gone for sure

(edit: BDB was edited, not BD. Sorry! -Mike) Mike

Ediker's overall placement predictions here seem pretty reasonable, imo... given most of us ( myself included ) know so very little at the moment on how Corps camps are going , and what the designs of the shows will ultimately look and sound like with all these Corps. I think Crown's projection to be in a 2 way race with BD for the 2018 Title is maybe a bit too optimistic for them. I guess I see Crown's Design team having to come up with an improved design than that of 2017 to be in position to move up and be in this two way only 2018 race tier with BD. But a 3rd place finish in 2017 with the show they had, should make such a 2018 prediction of 1-2 certainly not out of the question though either, imo.

(Reposting from a similar thread) Championship Contenders Blue Devils and Carolina Crown - No elaboration needed for BD. CC is likely to field the kind of design that put them on top. Percussion will begin to rival their amazing brass, and the colorguard will be stronger. These two corps will be the class of the field in 2018. Medal Pool Santa Clara, Cavaliers, Boston Crusaders, and Bluecoats - Santa Clara will remain strong. The Cavies' stock is still rising, propelled by MM maturity, experience, and their brand's re-acquired "it" factor. Boston's wave has still not crested. Retained veterans and an uptick in experienced recruits will keep upward pressure on design, demand, and placement. Bluecoats have weathered their first post-championship season. Their return to the medal hunt will be unhampered by having "just won" (an affliction to which only BD is immune). Mid-tier Blue Knights, Cadets, Phantom, and Blue Stars - BK's brass has been consistently good and their percussion was the talk of Indy in 2017. With an improved guard and a design worthy of the performers, they have a chance to top this tier and possibly snag a top 5 finish. Member retention and an aggressive recruiting effort are solidifying the Cadets' position in this group. Early design readiness will be key to allowing this corps' MMs and championship DNA to deliver and climb. Fine-tuning the Phantom Mystique, and fielding a design that conveys it, will show the younger generation why the "dinos" still revere this corps. Blue Stars were victorious in their last duel with Crossmen. To rise within this group, they will need more design "wow factor" to challenge Phantom, Cadets, and BK. Finalist Contenders Crossmen, Madison, Mandarins, Colts, and Academy - Crossmen are likely to remain solid finalists and challengers to the mid-tier. Madison has both passionate MMs and fans. The question is how these strengths will be channeled. Mandarins are putting the most pressure on the others. Colts have a chance to jump in, and Academy needs a dose of their 2016 magic to challenge.