Cadets 2017

[jwillis35]

4 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:

Haha what? There's been plenty of flame throwing on the Scouts threads. Just as bad, and likely worse than Cadets threads. It's perhaps been going on longer and therefore run its course to a degree that it seems less bad this season. 

Very true. I remember the recent arguments on there when Jim Mason stepped down (and I like him a lot). I remember the in-fighting when Scott Stewart (one of my favorites) was pushed out, or perhaps he chose to leave. Either way, it was an end to a great era of Madison Scout shows. That is one proud organization that I think to this day is in a kind of shell shock over today's placements, styles, funding, etc. 

[afd]

One thing BD does is let the designers do their thing. It's a team thing. That's why they succeeded year after year. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by afd

[HockeyDad]

6 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

Why just compare Cadets to BD? 

Really?  Because who are the number one and number two organizations in terms of dci championships won?  In 2007 Cadets had a real shot of narrowing the gap to one.  I dare say the Cadets were THE benchmark for 20 years starting in '83. It was never 1. Blue Devils. 2. Everybody else.  

That's why. 

[jwillis35]

Just now, HockeyDad said:

Really?  Because who are the number one and number two organizations in terms of dci championships won?  In 2007 Cadets had a real shot of narrowing the gap to one.  I dare say the Cadets were THE benchmark for 20 years starting in '83. It was never 1. Blue Devils. 2. Everybody else.  

That's why. 

Ok, point taken.  And I am sure this is why it is so difficult for Cadets fans to realistically take in where they are today. 

[ShortAndFast]

I think all the concern about placements is overdone - that ship has sailed, Cadets won't need to worry about whether medals coordinate well with their uniforms for a few years IMO. The question is more whether they can put a compelling show on the field and give strong performances of it as the season goes on.

I think there are parts of the show that are quite strong. The choir is good and is well used and well integrated. The 3 uniforms, taken by themselves, are nicely done - especially #2 is a pretty good modernization of the traditional uniform. The music book is quite faithful to the original work, and pretty enjoyable if you know the source material.

But it seems undeniable that it's failing to reach the audience. My wife, who does not know Bernstein's Mass, was mostly scratching her head as we watched the stream last night and didn't get much out of it. They obviously started with an idea of portraying the same dramatic arc as the original work - "faithful, fallen, forgiven" is a pretty good 3 word synopsis of Mass - but they aren't successfully portraying this. So it kind of comes across as a heavy handed, literal show about crosses, bibles and a hectoring preacher rather than a story about religious people who rebel against their faith, lose it, and eventually rediscover it.

If there's one thing that they could fix, it's probably the male narrator. Is he playing the character of the Celebrant? If so, we should see him portray the loss of faith like he does in the original work - but instead he just seems to "preach" from beginning to end and doesn't develop much at all. On the other hand, if he's just a voice over, then they should cut 80% of his material - a small phrase at the beginning of each section to help the thematic change would be fine.

[chaddyt]

26 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

Good point.  As an outsider looking in I think it's been hard for fans and alumni of the Cadets to watch the past 4 years. When your history is so littered with championships and regional titles and top 3 finishes it can be tough to cut the chord and view this 2017 corps as a New Beginning.  

But it is a new beginning.

If the sky is falling, as many have eluded to, it began to fall in 2006 and 2008. It fell further in 2010. They resurrected themselves for a while with 2011, 2012, and 2013.  But in 2014 they took a potentially great show and killed it. In 2015 they had a silly show theme to go with the majestic works of Shostakovich. They had a championship music ensemble and still couldn't make the show work.  They killed the GE with black uniforms, and ultimately they couldn't fine tune the guard.  By 2016 it was clear they had fallen. Still had some talent, but the design was a mess. Kept changing the show. Nothing seemed to work. If they had normal talent that show would have finished in 9th or 10th. 

The present corps (2017) is almost entirely new staff and design team. They have many new marching members, and this style of show is quite different from their typical show -- not to mention the risk they are taking with Mass. It takes time when you put a new staff together. They will also have to develop these new members. I say this is the beginning of the new era for The Cadets. I think their members are doing a nice job.  It's a much better show than last year, and their score last night was pretty good. 

As always, a measured, rational response.  I long for the day DCP gets its claws in you jwillis and you just let loose. 

I'll be interested to see what happens staff wise this off-season.  Hop noted disagreements among the design crew in how to move forward for the rest of the summer.  In my head, that means disagreements between him and some of the stronger personalities recently brought on board (Aungst/Shanefield).  I literally have nothing to base that on other than recent history, but in order for this program to continue to rebuild, they will need to settle in with some consistent designers.

The members are doing a great job with what they've been given.  It just feels like their designers are still guessing at what makes a successful drum corps show in today's DCI.  

[George Dixon]

29 minutes ago, 2000Cadet said:

I don't know much about BD's organization, but how often do they have staff turnover? 

how often do they bounce a check?

[Cappybara]

2 hours ago, George Dixon said:

That's this entire thread last night and this morning 

people who loved the show now say the season is over

the annual cadets critics have emerged to feed

over reacting to Hopkins Facebook post... should they have known? Yes. Did he own it? Yes. Did he blame others or the members? No

the kids have performed 4 minutes of the show last night for the very first time - let's see how things seem in a few days

stop overreacting, over-generalizing and placing your personal enjoyment of a show completely in the judges hands

i thought the scores were very dubious at best last night. My faith in DCI adjudication died in 2007

Cadets will refine their program greatly over the next week or two, let's see where things stand then. 

My question is, why in the #### are they learning 4 new minutes of a show in Mid July?

[xandandl]

2 hours ago, 2000Cadet said:

The Cadets are worthwhile when they put out shows that are competitive and aren't pandering. The Cadets are worthwhile when they don't force ideas and lead with subtlety. The Cadets are worthwhile when they come out with a cohesive idea and improve upon it instead of constantly going back to the drawing board midseason. It's annoying when people compare Cadets alums to the alum of other corps when Cadets are the second winningest corps in DCI. With a reputation like that, you should be putting out shows that drive people nuts EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T MEDAL OR WIN, instead of forcing people to go get a hotdog during your show. 

you seem addicted to adrenaline rushes as the only way of life and expression.

[xandandl]

2 hours ago, FTNK said:

It's like extremely accurate and obvious generalization

The corps does have some h.s. kids, not the majority. That the corps is not tremendously filled with vets would be the better statement. Vets to the activity and to the corps.

Your self-sense of infallibilty would cause even a blush on the Via della Conciliazione

Edited July 16, 2017 by xandandl