Trends, art and DCI scoring

[Cadevilina Crown]

1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

the sheets changed a lot 5 years ago

For sure, much of the terminology has changed - we went from Ensemble captions to Analysis captions, Visual Performance to Visual Proficiency, GE Music/Visual to GE 1/2 - but the percentages of each caption have remained largely the same since 2000.

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, Cadevilina Crown said:

For sure, much of the terminology has changed - we went from Ensemble captions to Analysis captions, Visual Performance to Visual Proficiency, GE Music/Visual to GE 1/2 - but the percentages of each caption have remained largely the same since 2000.

no need to change the numerical breakdown. and a ton of verbiage on the sheets changed, and in several cases, made the sheets less abstract

[skevinp]

5 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

which almost always seem totally out of context with the music and mood. 

Viewed objectively, that could probably be said of conventional marching, much of the time.

[MikeRapp]

7 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

A trend I was thinking about is that the invented and now mandatory (if you want box 5) concept of "simultaneous demand" and "environmental demand" (or is that the same thing?) have produced 11 minutes of MMs running around the field contorting their bodies into all manner of awkward looking body positions, which almost always seem totally out of context with the music and mood. It seems completely unnecessary. Was the genesis of this Star of Indiana back in the early '90's?  It has really developed into something quite awkward looking. 

I think this is sort of what I’m referring to.

I get the feeling they’re throwing stuff in to get a bunch of points with the judges regardless of whether it actually works in the show.

It’s sort of like watching gymnastics, or ice-skating, where they are required to include a number of compulsory acts to rack Up points with the judges.

This will always be an activity that balances technical exposition with what we now call general effect. We’re definitely moving now more toward GE having more weight, but I still feel like that has a lot more emphasis on visual that musical.

Edited August 1, 2018 by MikeRapp

[luv4corps]

3 hours ago, MikeRapp said:

I think this is sort of what I’m referring to.

I get the feeling they’re throwing stuff in to get a bunch of points with the judges regardless of whether it actually works in the show.

It’s sort of like watching gymnastics, or ice-skating, where they are required to include a number of compulsory acts to rack Up points with the judges.

This will always be an activity that balances technical exposition with what we now call general effect. We’re definitely moving now more toward GE having more weight, but I still feel like that has a lot more emphasis on visual that musical.

Yes, skating really comes to mind as something that seems to work the same way.  The 'component' scores can really add up for skaters.  Things like deep edges and other skating skills, transitions, artistic interpretation, etc.

[bluesman]

10 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

A trend I was thinking about is that the invented and now mandatory (if you want box 5) concept of "simultaneous demand" and "environmental demand" (or is that the same thing?) have produced 11 minutes of MMs running around the field contorting their bodies into all manner of awkward looking body positions, which almost always seem totally out of context with the music and mood. It seems completely unnecessary. Was the genesis of this Star of Indiana back in the early '90's?  It has really developed into something quite awkward looking. 

Star was the first corps that used "body contouring" in a show, but we didn't see a lot of it until around 2005.  I think some of it was a reaction to how dominant Cavaliers were in visual.  They won in 1992 and 1995, but the victories in 2000(tie), 2001 and 2002 may have caused other corps to look at things besides drill as a way of evening the score.  I'm big into drill, so all the posing stuff just isn't my cup of tea.  

Edited August 2, 2018 by bluesman
spelling

[Den8uml]

My parents were in drumcorps and drill team many decades ago through cyo.  When I recently described to them what it’s like now in DCI I said it’s like a marching band and broadway show combined on the field. They looked really confused but I showed them some videos they got really excited about it. It’s Just not what they did or remember but they were ok with it and appreciated it. I mention this because it highlights how far the shows have come in a broadway direction even in the last 5 years, and because of that I agree the way scores are done needs to be changed. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Den8uml

[DAvery]

On 8/1/2018 at 5:58 PM, MikeRapp said:

I think this is sort of what I’m referring to.

I get the feeling they’re throwing stuff in to get a bunch of points with the judges regardless of whether it actually works in the show.

It’s sort of like watching gymnastics, or ice-skating, where they are required to include a number of compulsory acts to rack Up points with the judges.

This will always be an activity that balances technical exposition with what we now call general effect. We’re definitely moving now more toward GE having more weight, but I still feel like that has a lot more emphasis on visual that musical.

It has been this way every since I can remember.  I talked with several knowledgeable drum people in the 70's and one of things they were always talking about was the amount of time the drumline played.  The unwritten rule was if drumline went more than 60 seconds during the show without playing, their score would decrease. 

[One n Done]

On 8/1/2018 at 5:58 PM, MikeRapp said:

I think this is sort of what I’m referring to.

I get the feeling they’re throwing stuff in to get a bunch of points with the judges regardless of whether it actually works in the show.

It’s sort of like watching gymnastics, or ice-skating, where they are required to include a number of compulsory acts to rack Up points with the judges.

This will always be an activity that balances technical exposition with what we now call general effect. We’re definitely moving now more toward GE having more weight, but I still feel like that has a lot more emphasis on visual that musical.

We’re not “moving” towards GE having more weight....we are fully there.  Less visual demand.  Less musical demand.  Especially less of both occurring simultaneously.  The musical clarity and passion this year from SCV, for example, is amazing.  The cost?  Very limited movement and environmental/special demands.  This is no accident on the part of their designers, and the judges buy it.  Many fans too.  I dig ‘em.  Effect rules, this is not new.  I think what IS new, is that we’re starting to see a limited bandwidth from evaluators as to WHAT is effective:  Absolute clarity and volume at all costs and programs that are obvious to the point of not requiring or challenging the audience to interpret and derive meaning.  Is this all bad?  All good?  What I don’t want to see is a Finals where 12 groups wind up being nearly indistinguishable in their use of field and variety of content.  

[saxfreq1128]

On 8/1/2018 at 11:00 AM, MikeRapp said:

 

If a corps did a true jazz show, and I mean a real jazz music show, it would get hammered in scoring.

Thoughts on this? 

Depends what we mean by “true jazz”? Jazz is so diverse... Who can say what “real jazz” is when it means Wynton Marsalis, Stan Kenton, Mingus, and even Stravinsky and Philip Glass?

 I think of many BD shows as jazz-heavy in one way or another — and I choose BD as an example because, well, it doesn’t seem to have hurt their scores not one bit.  

They used jazz arrangements of Rite of Spring rather than the Stravinsky; 1930 had a huge jazz duet (“Happy Days Are Here Again” / “Get happy” — not originally jazz songs, but the Judy Garland / Barbara Streisand duet that BD used definitely was) and the same show also used a ton of Gershwin; “City of Glass” (2010) was avant garde jazz; last year’s ballad; “Jazz: Music Made in America”; “Awayday Blues”; etc etc.

I don’t think it hurts at all.  

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by saxfreq1128