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No. The facts do not support my desired outcome, so I'm just going to stick my fingers in my ears and say LAALALALALALAALLALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU. Mission accomplished.

You can't be serious. All 8 of the corps you mentioned have superior players, staff, design and PERFORMANCE LEVELS than the video which was posted....if you cannot recognize that, you need to learn more about each of the above. In addition, until high school bands go on 60 day tours, rehearse 12 hours a day, sleep on buses, and oh yeah, allow college music majors in their bands, it won't even be close.

WOW! You've seen the 2012 season already?

Please don't take this as a flame. You mean to tell me that you seriously think that Broken Arrow High School marches and plays better than Spirit of Atlanta, Blue Stars, Madison Scouts, Blue Knights and Boston Crusaders? Did I read that right?

I know they are one of the better HS Marching Bands in the country. However, thats just the point. They still look and sound like a high school marching band. Not to mention their show was boring as sin. If I was getting a hot dog and heard them playing, I wouldn't stop getting a hot dog. I think that is one of the bigger problems in competitive marching band today anyway. I was on staff with a few groups in Michigan's MCBA circuit. I went to finals this year for the first time in a long time. Most of the shows were ####-near unwatchable. Call me a curmudgeon if you wish. Just my opinion. Since you asked about placement, I would put them in about the 18-22 range.

They are asking about 800 numbers Boo; I believe that those who post on DCP only know about 900 numbers

Incorrect.

who cares what key? if it gets kids interested, more power to em

Sorry, but the comparison is not even close. I am a music teacher. I play both F/Bb and G bugles. I also play a professional level french horn. I would not play my horn in a drum corp. I would not play my f mello in anything but a drum corps. If you teach these kids to play, they will be able to play on whatever brass instrument you put in their hands. These kids are not going to be coming from an elitist high budget school band program that will insist they only play top of the line horns. Good technique and musicality is good technique and musicality, whether you are playing on a Bach Strad or a chinese knock-off. I have to conduct a band daily and teach lessons to kids that are on both. I think a relatively matched set of whatever key they can get is more important.

The BOA comparison comes up every year. There is no way a BOA band makes DCI finals, beats a World Class corps during finals week, etc etc so on and so on. If this band showed up at DCI during finals week, and performed their show at the caliber of the YouTube video, as was allowed to compete with their instrumentation (and show length and rules etc) they would come in dead last in World Class. This is not meant to be a bust on bandos, I was once a bando, but a great high school band does not compare to a drum corps in August. Please stop posting these types of threads.

I have never worked or been affiliated with Broken Arrow. I have, however, been affiliated with other BOA Finalists. In my experiences there is little or no comparison between Drum Corps units and Bands of America units. The biggest problem with that statement is that I feel like it takes away from the wonderful things these groups are doing. It is under the umbrella of "marching arts" but is very different from DCI. Let's not forget, before we speak too much, that these are High School groups and High School kids. These kids are involved in numerous other activities, are going to school, are pubescent, and are going home every night living the family/friends dynamic. Marching Band is a big part of their life, but marching band is not necessarily their entire life. When we sit on a drum corps bus all summer and spend almost all of our days focusing on drum corps, our lives become much more singular and that is present in the execution and content in drum corps shows.

they would get disqualified for woodwinds.

Bob Higgins is definitely not there anymore. In fact, I think both tuba techs from my days (09-10) are at SCV. But now to what this thread is about. I'll do top 25. For the top 7, I'll just do groupings. 1-4 Blue Devils-One word, CONSISTANCY!. Though I haven't loved the shows between 05-10, they are always performing at the top of their game. They know how to play the game and the last time they didn't come out with some bling was definitely a blink. Wouldn't be surprised to see them 5 peat the guard trophy. Crown-Though they have had some big changes, the sound and teaching techniques of the hornline is going to always be there. Would definitely love to see them do a dark show from top to bottom. 09 was close if it wasn't for the happy ballad and closer. Bluecoats-There's a fire that started when the brass staff took off. A large vet return, the show is awesome (sorry, won't reveal it), and I know that the drill improvement will definitely help. Doug will have a great book for them, battery will be top notch, and the guard will be back to 2010 quality. SCV-With Paul solidified there the battery will live up to it's hype from the previous season. That brass staff they have can do amazing things and I'm sure will get them back up to par. 5-7 Cavaliers-After noting that Academy's issues of not making finals being visually oriented, I feel Cavaliers might slip this season. Won't say that they'll be bad but everyone else will be better. Cadets-A notable trend with these guys for almost a decade now is medal, not medal so I think this will happen again. Pretty sure no one saw them falling to 5th after 2005 but it happened. Phantom-I don't see them dropping out of the top 7 but I feel their drill design will hold them back if they get high school level drill again. 8. Madison- They will get their break and will start making their way back towards the top half of the finalists. Really enjoyed their show last season. 9. Blue Stars-Will make an attempt to get back into the dog fight they were in with the top 7 in 2010. 10. BK-They will stay on the entertainment track but won't be enough to move up against Madison and Blue Stars. 11. BAC-I know they won't drop from finals so I'm putting them here. Now that I think about it, I just want the placements to be like this but I have a feeling this "Titans" show will prove me wrong. 12. Academy-Their new brass caption head and percussion caption head will do wonders for this group and get them into their first finalist finish. Been waiting to see them Saturday night for a while. This will be close and will come to the music and GE scores. 13. Spirit-Still awesome, still intense and still Saturday night quality. But only 12 corps perform Saturday. 14. Troopers-I don't see them rising or dropping. Love this corps though. 15. Crossmen-Seems about time for them to move up. 16. Glassmen-Again, wishing luck to some corps a bit more than others. 17. PC-They have to get moving if they want to make their 20 year anniversary as epic as their 10 year (03 was their first time in div. 1 and they made semis). 18. Colts- I see them as a vulnerable after last season. 19. OC-Dat brass man. Dat corps has a sweet brass. 20. Cascades-been hearing great things from my friends teaching there. 21. BDB-great gourp and definitely a force to be reckoned with. 22. Jersey Surf-This should be a fun show for everyone. Should help boost placement. 23. Mandarins-they'll be there friday night. 24. Teal-The staff changes might make things a bit shaky their first year. Hope this doesn't happen because I have liked this corps shows the past couple of years. 25. Pioneer-They'll get into semis this year. I can feel it in my bones. Or it's just an early onset of arthritis...

Dan, I'm happy to admit I'm skeptical of the whole endeavour. Because we've seen this guy try a startup before that ended up being a fairly large scam. Not a youthful misunderstanding, or aiming too far above his head - flat out lies. And because on DCP over a decade now we've seen a *lot* of these sorts of things come and go. If that makes me a cynic, I'm happy to accept that label. But I've also seen a lot of true and good startups pass through this corner of cyberspace as well, and they tend to have a certain "look" about them. That this does not. Mike

Why are they announcing that they're selling off equipment that they JUST bought.

DCP posters who have CEO experience with Billion Dollar Companies was not your claim; Solid Business Experience was your claim. And one does not have to be a CEO of a Billion Dollar Company to gain solid business experience.

Only on DCP can we take a great, positive story and find ways to complain about something someone said.

I think we need to step away from the keyboard. Everything will be alright. Marching percussion probably will never be replaced by these electronic thingys. Daniel's solutions might work, but honestly why go through the trouble. Keep it simple. And to get it to work outdoors would just be stupid. Indoors, maybe. But why have a whole line when two or three guys could probably take care of a whole drumline sound. And it would be easier to clean. I don't know. For marching percussion it doesn't make sense. Front ensemble electronic percussion is already being widely used. World class corps have used electronic sets. And I'm sure stuff is widely in use indoors. As for a concert band setting, I'd have to question if that director deserved their job. Unless it calls for electronic instruments in the score there should be NOTHING electronic coming out of the ensemble. (now I have known of some smaller young bands using synthesizers to cover low end stuff, they don't have a tuba player or whatever. I don't know how I feel about that. I'd have to think about it). Do we really want to hear an electronic timpani sound during Scences from the Louve??? And if my band program did not have timpani that would sure be on my priority list of things to purchase. I know money is sparse these day. But they can last a long time. Back to marching percussion though. It just doesn't make any sense to go electronic. Its not even worth it to spend the money to develop it. And I'm just talking about MARCHING percussion. Just so we are clear. But supposedly the future of the band world is every kid has their own EWI. Kill me now.

I am pro music education. If this becomes a legitimate non-profit that uses their money wisely and is devoted to music education in an area that NEEDS all the good things happening it can (with the economy and school systems being so rough in the last 10 years), I'm going to donate money and good will. They could be playing instruments in the key of F#, for all I care. We, myself included, have cried over the plight of "hometown drum corps" for years. Well, here is one, whose focus is on the community and making the lives of the youths in it better; and hopefully entertaining some people along the way. Is the objection to mixed key brass so great that people will not support the activity in the same format that brought it to prominence in the marching arts?

I wear big boy pants. Last-minute repertoire changes are not going to ruin my Summer. I can understand, barely, holding back on show CONCEPT or TITLE announcements. But this isn't cloak-and-dagger information vital to national security. And considering any Joe Public can simply walk by the corps property on a camp weekend and hear them performing, WHAT they are playing isn't exactly secret. And with the total fusterclucks we've had on recent CD/DVD releases, I think people just need to realize that copyright grief is a part of life now and will never be completely eliminated. I still don't see what it being gained by holding back every possible piece of information.

After this past weekends camp, the excitement level is on the rise in Saberland. All sections are still looking for players but a good, talented nucleus is making great strides this winter. The White Sabers are proud to announce the addition of Tim Allen, as a visual tech for the 2012 season. Tim has been around the activity pretty much since birth. Having marched with the Rochester Crusaders, Brigadiers, Hurricanes and DCI's Pioneer, Tim now brings his talents to the Sabers visual staff If you are anywhere in NY state or northern PA, take a weekend and check us out. For any info on the White Sabers future camps or anything else, go to whitesabers.org or contact me at michael.linton52@gmail.com Mike Linton WHOF Member White Sabers Drum & Bugle Corps Education/Administrative Consultant

1-800-NOT-AGIN 1-800-YEA-RITE 1-800-BIG-CROK 1-800-BUL-S........And We're outta here!

Goals are vastly different. The goal of Broken Arrow Marching Band is to win BOA competitions within the framework of a scholastic music environment; the goal of Pioneer Drum & Bugle Corps is to develop important life skills, enhance the member's positive social development, and enhance the quality of life for all members within the context of DCI (ie Pioneer couldn't care less about winning a ring and a piece of plastic, and cares even less if Broken Arrow is considered more competitive).

Remembrance? Because that would be great!

The Connecticut Hurricanes have a lot to be excited about in the 2012 Season. The Corps has welcomed some new faces to our Management and Educational Teams, and they are working hard to provide the best experience for the members of the 2012 Hurricanes both on and off the field. The Corps has had a great winter so far, and will be playing through the closer by the end of February, a first in the long history of the corps! Our next rehearsal is coming up this Sunday, February 26th from 9:00AM to 4:30 PM at the Seymour Recreation Center in Seymour, CT. For a sneak peak at how our winter has been progressing, take a look at the freshly posted Hurricanes Preseason Video on the brand new Hurricanes YouTube Channel (link is below)! Stay tuned for more video updates as the winter progresses! For more information, please click here to go to our website!

I really enjoyed Fantasia's show, and it was very intense to watch in person. I think the moments are well planned out, and the staging is fantastic. Unfortunately I don't think they are where they'll need to be from a downstairs perspective to crack top 5 unless they have a lot of changes. If you pick an individual to watch, you'll notice they have about 8 counts of interesting work, followed by 16+ counts of fluff. There's always something cool going on, but there doesn't seem to be a high enough level of demand on the individuals to crack that top tier. Of course, that hasn't stopped them in the past. And that definitely didn't stop Onyx last year.

I still don't understand this policy at all. Offer it as a $29 batch download if you like, but forcing us to buy the physical product in a digital industry... Mike

its possible that they're browser didnt catch the error;

Would it be wrong of me to correct their grammar on their fb page?

I agree - kind of a badly made movie but the music was great!

Seriously, dude (or dudette)...that is a beautiful story, and it demonstrates the awesome power of drum corps.

Not that I've observed anyone that would fall into this category, but I don't believe people here on DCP want to see others fail. If such a venture could be pulled off, with realistic goals and expectations, it could conceivably benefit many students. My personal preference would be to see a more modest business plan at first, taking such sessions to areas that aren't already swamped with great marching band programs that are chock full of good instructors. I suspect a less cosmopolitan setting for a pared down setting of hands-on camps could attract students from programs where not as much is happening as in the big programs in the major metropolitan areas. I think band directors might be more eager to send their students to such sessions if their students are not already exposed to practically year-round specialized marching instruction in their schools. (Marching band, winter guard, indoor marching percussion.) Those schools in more major metropolitan areas with big marching programs may well have band directors and marching instructors/techs who might advise their students not to attend for the following reasons: (I'm proposing these possibilities from having known and/or worked with countless band directors over the decades...directors who are quite protective of their students.) 1) A band director or marching tech may ask, "What's the point?...My students are already receiving top-quality instruction that is paid for by the school/band program/band parents organization/students themselves." 2) Directors or instructors at the school would wonder if instructors at such a camp may provide suggestions and techniques contrary to what is being offered in the school program. 3) Directors or instructors at the school would wonder if instructors at such a camp may have substantially less experience working with students than instructors in an active marching band program. 4) Band directors are quite interested in knowing what the track record is of anyone they send their students to study with. They talk amongst themselves and share their experiences. And even in the most remote crevices of America, they have access to the Internet. 5) Directors and staff are concerned about students coming back from an experience with changed attitudes and even techniques and methods that may have to be "unlearned" if those techniques and methods don't gel with what is being taught at the school. 6) Directors and staff may wonder if they'll get any benefit from the hundreds of dollars their students will spend to attend such a workshop. 7) Directors and staff may be concerned if their students may return with a sour attitude if they don't get out of the workshop what they desire to get from it before they go in. The attitude of a grumpy student can be contagious. 8) Directors and staff may wonder what the fallout might be if they suggest their students attend outside workshops and the students come back with the attitude described above. 9) There is no number 9, just as there were no workshops at the scheduled events in Atlanta and Miami and won't be for Tampa. 10) Their schools already have free parking. (Sorry...I couldn't resist that.) I restate that the idea for these workshops is potentially one that could be of a great benefit to many students. I certainly do hope that a workable plan can be put in place to attract the students who would benefit the most...students from schools and geographic regions that aren't saturated with their own specialized instructors already. I also wish a more affordable option becomes available for those who would benefit from this endeavor. (Much cost could be saved without the required hotel component.) I want to believe everyone involved with this has their heart in the right place; but any such venture needs to be run as a business that expects to be around for a long time, intends to grow each year and doesn't try to come out of the chute like a Fortune 500 company. But I'm still impressed with the free parking.

Accurate = Right Inaccurate = Wrong Which part of his post was wrong? Nothing. Therefore it is 100% accurate. Does it address EVERY piece? No. So it is not 100% complete. Inaccurate and Incomplete are two different words.

Kamarag, yes they are facts. Every high school owns a tympani regardless of whether they use one in their marching percussion activities or not. Ever heard of a concert band? Remember, we are not talking about drum corps here...check the context of the discussion. Same with mallet instruments. Every high school owns mallet instruments regardles of marching use. So no, we are NOT talking about replacing any of that. We are talking ONLY about replacing acoustic battery (much more economical and practical) with electronic battery (much less economical and practical...ASIDE from isolated novelty use). YES! THAT IS A FACT! Finally....OH GREAT!!! Let's take away the need for kids to hone their keyboard skills (a must for any college music major...as is tympani) because the new marching percussion can now generate those sounds (as toy and video game like as they sound). REAL EDUCATIONAL!!! :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Well, from my perspective without trying to make a big deal of it. It was something fun for Santa Clara to do and it gave everyone something to talk about. I'm also thinking that "jimmyhat" might be the kind of person who will always tell you what your present is before you get to unwrap it. He just can't help himself. Eh, it takes all kinds

You think that Bluecoats are capable of winning an Ott this year? Even though virtually all of their brass staff went to SCV? I personally think its a big stretch, even though their brass was superb last year, no doubt, but it will be difficult to push back into that higher territory immediately after their 4 placement drop and loss of much of their best staff. I'm not familiar with most of the staff for this year, so I'm curious to hear your reasoning behind it.

Count me as 1 who loves the '88 Madison Scouts! Saw them a week or 2 before Finals and they were already on fire. When the horn line cut loose... Wow!

In 1972 AAG had 2 corps A and B. They wore different uniforms. A won the Moose Jaw Band Festival in May. A and B did lots of parades in July and A won the Calgary Stampede parade. In August A performed in England, Edinburgh Festival and lighting of the Olympic flame ceremony in Munich. A took 7 B girls to Europe. The 2 letter a’s later marched tympani and letter e was bass drummer in 77, 6 years in the drum line from B to A, aged out in winter guard 1981. Late August 1972, B won the PNE parade. 7 letter girls from B at Trafalgar Square with A! Oh my; almost forgot my bucket password posting on DCP, lol. The 7 letter girls from B! Would you like to dance?

Please, thanks, bye

Lucky for the White Sabres...quite the coup...He's a great addition to the staff and what a surprise...Mike Linton too! There's 2 plusses already!! We're all in for a pleasant surprise. Props to you!!!

Want a drumline vid? Ok, I'll give you one... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw0gTsSUZ-E&feature=related

Is he any good?

Could be really cool in some indoor applications or for stage shows and other things. Logistically i dont see them working out on the field without some very expensive add ons. As a whole, I think these are phenomenal, but just probably wouldnt go through the effort on the field.

Ok, time for some drumline vids! NEXT CONTRIBUTION???

That was a great moment. Early season it wasn't quite there for me yet, but they added to it and made it a great moment. Great impact, full of color. Full corps sound.

Wow... What a beautiful piece. http://ostimusic.com/Hymn-media.html I think Gail would love it. I can picture him conducting it, which tells me it's a winner.

Clams and roast beef? It better be on your expense account.

Some of the best Roast Beef I have ever eaten! Now they have a chain. Last time we were in town we stopped by there where is the other restaurant? I can't think right now..lol.

OK, OK. My lovely wife Cheryl caught me looking at this thread. I'm now on the hook for a trip to the Newbridge and Kelley's on the beach. Here's my 27 cents worth. Newbridge. I lived 4 doors down the street for almost 30 years beginning at birth in 1957. Before the current owners bought the place in the 70's it was a front for a bookie operation called the Rainbow cafe. The neighbors would look the other way but would never set foot inside the door, ever. If you stood at the front door you could throw a rock and it would land in either Chelsea, Revere or Everett depending on the direction of flight. That corner is almost the point where the 3 cities touch each other. I never ate there until about 1993 when Cheryl insisted we go there. It was and still is all that its cracked up to be. Great steak or lamb tips! (Mandatory drum corps content.) In the spring of 1969 my father (very involved in Reveries and 27th at the time) was confined to the house for several months due to and illness. George B took the entire corps to the house on a Sunday afternoon where the most amazing park and blow performance was given at the end of Prospect Ave facing up the street towards the Newbridge. Needless to say, this then 12 year old, already with several marching seasons under his belt, was completely freaked out! I can still see 27th standing there when ever I'm there. George did this for others over the years with the same results. What a way to say thanks for your involvement! Kelley's. Nothing more to say except my little brother Scott owns the worlds largest limousine service and clients (the real rich and not so famous as well as many celebrities) from all over the world have requested a trip to Kelly's on the beach. This has gone on for the 30 years he's been in business. Not much anyone can add to that endorsement. Hilltop. Let's just say that Frank's gone and so went a legend. No sense beating a dead horse, er, cow. The Bay Side Lounge. This was a family operation. My family. My father's Uncle Bill, the patriarch of the Revere Sarno Klan, owned the place. We used to hold family parties there. A big drum corps hang out for about 25 or 30 years. Favorite of 27th staff as well as the Reveries. (Mandatory drum corps content.) I'll never forget the time around 1969 or 1970 when the Foley twins came around the corner of Zayer's and came to a screeching halt right in the middle of a Reveries practice in the Foley's 27th green VW bug. The two of them jumped out, opened the front trunk, grabbed my father, tossed him in, closed up and left rubber! They felt it was more important for my dad (Slushy) to have a few cold ones with 27th's staff at his uncle's place across the street! I figured out what was what and was laughing like an idiot while a lot of the Reverie kids didn't have a clue and thought the boss had been kidnapped by a local hit squad. When the Foley twins were wound up the most outrageous hilarity was about to overwhelm anybody in range.