Pioneer

[MikeZ]

I'm a little nervous that Pioneer's 50th anniversary is going to have them spending too much time looking back and not enough time looking forward. Nobody likes tradition and history more then me, but you have to find a way to embrace that history while still moving forward. Seeing the staff announcements so far have the corps reaching back in their history to bring back former designers. I am sure Larry and Rick are both great guys...I just hope they work on pushing the corps forward and not spend too much time reflecting on their past.

Z

[PioTrpt10]

It makes me sad seeing all these people criticizing Pioneer and Roman. Just let them be. Pioneer is going to have an awesome 50th year. Like I said just let Pioneer be. Go and ask anybody who's marched Pioneer and they'll tell you it's not all about the scores, the uniforms, lack of floor time or whatever. It's about becoming Better Every Day. And our corps prayer, its about "the togetherness and friendship we share." Also about the going to church part, last season we had a few people who were not religious and even a person who was jewish. Nobody really minded going to church every once in awhile. Pioneer is a good corps and just like the Troopers, they have a theme that makes them who they are. So stop criticizing Pioneer and look forward to watching us "Celebrate" our 50th anniversary.

Better Every Day.

[nemesiscorps]

I'm a little nervous that Pioneer's 50th anniversary is going to have them spending too much time looking back and not enough time looking forward. Nobody likes tradition and history more then me, but you have to find a way to embrace that history while still moving forward. Seeing the staff announcements so far have the corps reaching back in their history to bring back former designers. I am sure Larry and Rick are both great guys...I just hope they work on pushing the corps forward and not spend too much time reflecting on their past.

Z

Again, the point is clear. People want Pioneer to be more progressive in their program design, which is understandable, and I'd like the same thing. However, it is also clear that the final product is always filtered through the Executive Director, so it is less about who will be on the design team, and more about what ideas will coincide with the Executive Director's vision (which is ultimately accepted by everyone that chooses to march there), which is okay. Furthermore, as it relates to program design, there's nothing necessarily wrong with knowing what to expect and then meeting that expectation, and no real point in criticizing it to the point of excessive repetition, when again, it is ultimately accepted by those that choose to march there. Certainly, it would be different if the corps were on a crusade claiming that they have been unfairly adjudicated as it relates to the competitive aspect of the activity.

My beef is where people perceive or label the corps as "bad." They're never "bad," but they do present programs that do not always fit models that seem to appeal to judging criteria on the sheets, and they do accept membership into the organization not based upon talent, but instead based upon desire to participate and commitment to the ideals of the corps, its mission, and its philosophy. Hmm... sounds like a youth development organization to me.

My other concern is the criticism directed toward the returning staff members... the individuals responsible for designing the programs that resulted in the corps most successful competitive rankings in its 50-year history. There is a clear assumption that these returning professionals have no ability to connect to current trends and contemporary design approaches. With some of these rude comments I've read, one might think that they're wheeling these guys out of nursing homes or something. Where is all this assumption of their "limited abilities" coming from? Because one has been in the activity for a certain length of time, does that automatically mean that they can't create contemporary programs? Obviously, such an assumption is totally invalid, since virtually all of the top competing corps have successful designers that have been in the activity for decades. As previously stated, often, Pioneer's programs receive the stamp of approval from outside the control of the designers, which again, everyone accepts, and I would imagine that the 50th Anniversary production will likely be one that receives that same stamp of approval.

I look at it this way... when I decide to dedicate my life and livelihood to keeping one corps alive, day after day, year after year, decade after decade, then yeah... if I think it's more important for me to run the organization in a particular manner that achieves the goals that are important to me (based upon youth development), then I'm going to do just that, regardless of what others that have no stake in the matter believe. I've learned that the sooner one lets go and recognizes that this corps follows the beat of a different drummer... a great drummer and his family that have kept the corps alive for 50 years... the sooner you'll be able to see beyond the surface of what they're all about. Someone once said, "there is no other corps like Pioneer," and they were right.

This coming season, let's wish them well and enjoy them celebrating their achievements.

[uncle z]

It makes me sad seeing all these people criticizing Pioneer and Roman. Just let them be.

[MikeZ]

Again, the point is clear. People want Pioneer to be more progressive in their program design, which is understandable, and I'd like the same thing. However, it is also clear that the final product is always filtered through the Executive Director, so it is less about who will be on the design team, and more about what ideas will coincide with the Executive Director's vision (which is ultimately accepted by everyone that chooses to march there), which is okay. Furthermore, as it relates to program design, there's nothing necessarily wrong with knowing what to expect and then meeting that expectation, and no real point in criticizing it to the point of excessive repetition, when again, it is ultimately accepted by those that choose to march there. Certainly, it would be different if the corps were on a crusade claiming that they have been unfairly adjudicated as it relates to the competitive aspect of the activity.

My beef is where people perceive or label the corps as "bad." They're never "bad," but they do present programs that do not always fit models that seem to appeal to judging criteria on the sheets, and they do accept membership into the organization not based upon talent, but instead based upon desire to participate and commitment to the ideals of the corps, its mission, and its philosophy. Hmm... sounds like a youth development organization to me.

My other concern is the criticism directed toward the returning staff members... the individuals responsible for designing the programs that resulted in the corps most successful competitive rankings in its 50-year history. There is a clear assumption that these returning professionals have no ability to connect to current trends and contemporary design approaches. With some of these rude comments I've read, one might think that they're wheeling these guys out of nursing homes or something. Where is all this assumption of their "limited abilities" coming from? Because one has been in the activity for a certain length of time, does that automatically mean that they can't create contemporary programs? Obviously, such an assumption is totally invalid, since virtually all of the top competing corps have successful designers that have been in the activity for decades. As previously stated, often, Pioneer's programs receive the stamp of approval from outside the control of the designers, which again, everyone accepts, and I would imagine that the 50th Anniversary production will likely be one that receives that same stamp of approval.

I look at it this way... when I decide to dedicate my life and livelihood to keeping one corps alive, day after day, year after year, decade after decade, then yeah... if I think it's more important for me to run the organization in a particular manner that achieves the goals that are important to me (based upon youth development), then I'm going to do just that, regardless of what others that have no stake in the matter believe. I've learned that the sooner one lets go and recognizes that this corps follows the beat of a different drummer... a great drummer and his family that have kept the corps alive for 50 years... the sooner you'll be able to see beyond the surface of what they're all about. Someone once said, "there is no other corps like Pioneer," and they were right.

This coming season, let's wish them well and enjoy them celebrating their achievements.

I think you may have taken what I said the wrong way. I don't have any problems with Larry Case or Rick Morey being on board for 2011. I have marched Rick Moreys drill and kind of know Larry Case (but am much more familiar with his sons...especially Greg). My only concerns are that whoever is designing the show spends too much time looking back. I want the corps to have some nods to the past in their 50th anniversary show. I just don't want the WHOLE show to be a look back. I am far from a Cadets fan, but I thought it was pretty tasteful how they approached their 75th anniversary. A cool retro name change with a fresh take on music the corps is known for. And I don't know anybody that didn't like the H-N-C/G/CB/75 forms in the drill. I just hope Pioneer can touch on the past while taking a step forward into the next 50 years of the corps. I would have made the exact same comments regardless of who the designers were...it just happens that Larry Case and Rick Morey's names have already been announced so I plugged them into the post.

Z

[nemesiscorps]

I think you may have taken what I said the wrong way. I don't have any problems with Larry Case or Rick Morey being on board for 2011. I have marched Rick Moreys drill and kind of know Larry Case (but am much more familiar with his sons...especially Greg). My only concerns are that whoever is designing the show spends too much time looking back. I want the corps to have some nods to the past in their 50th anniversary show. I just don't want the WHOLE show to be a look back. I am far from a Cadets fan, but I thought it was pretty tasteful how they approached their 75th anniversary. A cool retro name change with a fresh take on music the corps is known for. And I don't know anybody that didn't like the H-N-C/G/CB/75 forms in the drill. I just hope Pioneer can touch on the past while taking a step forward into the next 50 years of the corps. I would have made the exact same comments regardless of who the designers were...it just happens that Larry Case and Rick Morey's names have already been announced so I plugged them into the post.

Z

Sorry if I came off as directing my comments specifically/directly towards you, that was not my intent. I was continuing some earlier comments related to criticisms about the design staff in general. I agree completely with you about what the nature of the 50th Anniversary production should be, particularly since the corps has been known to hold on to a well intrenched theme that routinely permeates their shows. Typically, over the years, whatever things we've seen from Pioneer that may fall outside the "norm" of what we expect from them, likely came from the then program designers attempting (somewhat in vain) to move toward unexplored territory for the corps. That's a tough task, since there will always be some mandatory constants that are non-negotiable from Roman's perspective... which again is okay. RB has unquestionably earned the right to influence the design as he chooses, so I'd be shocked if there's a decidedly "forward leaning" approach to this year's show, particularly if one is not a fan (and I am not) of some of the material that does competitively well on the sheets these days for other corps.

Whatever the program content, I know it will be great and memorable nonetheless, and these are really good folks to have on staff with the 2011 corps.

[DrillmanSop06]

It makes me sad seeing all these people criticizing Pioneer and Roman. Just let them be. Pioneer is going to have an awesome 50th year. Like I said just let Pioneer be. Go and ask anybody who's marched Pioneer and they'll tell you it's not all about the scores, the uniforms, lack of floor time or whatever. It's about becoming Better Every Day. And our corps prayer, its about "the togetherness and friendship we share." Also about the going to church part, last season we had a few people who were not religious and even a person who was jewish. Nobody really minded going to church every once in awhile. Pioneer is a good corps and just like the Troopers, they have a theme that makes them who they are. So stop criticizing Pioneer and look forward to watching us "Celebrate" our 50th anniversary.

Better Every Day.

LEAVE BRITNEY PIONEER ALONE!

[nemesiscorps]

LEAVE BRITNEY PIONEER ALONE!

What is gained by this? What if that is truly that person's first post on DCP? This is how they're to be received? I know it's a tough world we live in and people should learn how to survive, but good grief. It's one thing if we old farts go for each other's throats, but can't we give marching members a break? No class (or respect) shown here my friend.

[DrillmanSop06]

What is gained by this? What if that is truly that person's first post on DCP? This is how they're to be received? I know it's a tough world we live in and people should learn how to survive, but good grief. It's one thing if we old farts go for each other's throats, but can't we give marching members a break? No class (or respect) shown here my friend.

/humor

[BozzlyB]

It makes me sad seeing all these people criticizing Pioneer and Roman. Just let them be. Pioneer is going to have an awesome 50th year. Like I said just let Pioneer be. Go and ask anybody who's marched Pioneer and they'll tell you it's not all about the scores, the uniforms, lack of floor time or whatever. It's about becoming Better Every Day. And our corps prayer, its about "the togetherness and friendship we share." Also about the going to church part, last season we had a few people who were not religious and even a person who was jewish. Nobody really minded going to church every once in awhile. Pioneer is a good corps and just like the Troopers, they have a theme that makes them who they are. So stop criticizing Pioneer and look forward to watching us "Celebrate" our 50th anniversary.

Better Every Day.

You (and a number of others) act as though people are standing outside of Pioneer headquarters with picket signs and buteric acid. DCP is an online discussion forum where we disect all drum corps, and yes people are passionate about this activity and not afraid to put their opinions out there. This is how it should be.

It is better than this thread getting 2-3 responses and then falling off the first page is it not? Would people take time to post about this if they didn't care? No, and that bears considering.