DCW article regarding touring . . .

[purenjoyment]

For me, when I was in high school, I didn't have the opportunity to march DCI, mainly because of the cost. I lived in Cleveland, and was within a 2 hour drive of 4 DCI corps: Bluecoats, Glassmen, Cap. Reg., and Marion Glory Cadets. All of them were entirely too expensive for me. So I had to give up any ideas about DCI just because of price.

However, another issue was competition. My high school band was a program that was falling apart: the director was near retirement, the administration hated band, and students were in marching band for the "easy A." As such we had 40 people in marching band, most of which did not memorize their music, and some of which could not even walk on the correct foot or even on the beat. The director didn't care because the students didn't care, and they would blatantly tell him so. As such, he would throw out every mailed invitation and turn down every phone invitation to marching band festivals or contests. So I never once performed on a field in a competition. I had no idea how I would stack up against other people trying out on my instrument.

When I got to college, I tried out for the Ohio State Univ. Marching Band. Once again, I had no idea what competition was, since I was naturally just the best performer in the entire HS band, since most purposely goofed off and would under perform. Obviously I did not make the OSU Band, and decided not to try out after that.

What does all of this have to do with the topic? Here goes:

There are plenty of young men and women who would love to be a part of something great like drum corps. However, many of these people come from families who have very little income, or, as in my case, have to pay to go to Catholic high school because the city's public schools were dangerous and had a <50% graduation rate. Because of that, there wasn't extra spending money. Drum corps needs to become a more community oriented program. If you ignore the community you claim to be based in, you alienate the children of that community. For example, Blue Stars, based in Wisconsin, have rehearsals in Indianapolis. What gives? You can't be a Wisconsin corps and expect interest from people in Wisconsin if you don't rehearse there or do community events there. In general, there seems to be too much focus on obscure markets hours away from the "home base" of the corps. Bring the corps back home, if you will, and your home will be appreciative. The people from all over who want to try out for XYZ corps obviously have the money to do so, so they will still come regardless of where the home city is. There is no reason that corps have to be so expensive. Yes, fuel, maintenance, uniforms, instruments, food, etc. cost money. I know those things aren't free. But you don't need to buy new uniforms every year. You don't need to play on brand new horns every single season. At my high school, the fiberglass Sousaphone I played on was over 30 years old. It was repainted with car paint and the broken pieces were held together by car bondo and white athletic tape. I've read countless stories of the drum corps of the 70s and 80s having the kids play on horns older than them. You can't make any more changes to marching brass aside from adding concert tubas, French horns, trombones, and Sousaphones, so you can keep a line of marching brass for more than one season.

If fuel is killing a corps, don't go on tour so early. My DCA corps doesn't even have a bus or charter contract, we are on our own to get to shows. Have more local shows. I don't know how to do that, but regardless, either do DCA/DCI shows, or regional DCI shows.

The next two are contradictions, sort of. First has to deal with people like myself who never had a high school program that was challenging or competitive. The idea of the tryout process for many drum corps makes a lot of people nervous or not even bother to go to camps. There's no incentive if you feel that you're an underdog anyways. More less competitive programs need to come up. And not like these "cadet" corps that only allow people age 12-15 or whatever. There are plenty of people who would like to be in a "cadet" style, less competitive (internally, for placement) corps so they can get a taste of what drum corps is all about. It seems that the way corps pander to only specific people (competitive marchers who are also music majors or equivalent musical ability) is also shooting them in the foot by not allowing other people to garner interest.

The contradiction of sorts to this has to do with competition. Every year, the OSUMB has 225 members. The instrumentation does not change. The intensity of shows, the traditions on game day, and the competition of tryouts is what keeps the band from having issues filling this instrumentation plan. Every year, anywhere between 350-500 musicians try out for those 225 spots. You get 40-50 tuba players for 28 spots just because most of them want the honor of dotting the "i." There are traditions that the band has that are kept super secret from the new rookies until a special "inititaion" night when they are finally considered worthy, if you will, of learning the secrets.

Yes, looking back on it, the "secrets of the OSUMB" may seem stupid, silly, or childish, but it was a big deal at the time because of the traditions associated with the 130+ year old band. The band does "new" things all the time, but they keep their intensity and drive - the "meat" someone referred to earlier - which keeps everyone coming back to the table. The OSU Athletic Band, which plays at hockey, basketball, volleyball, etc. comprises many of the OSUMB members as well as directing staff. It is often used as an experimentation ground for new music for the OSUMB. A surprising hit with the fans is a custom arrangement of Lady Gaga's "Bad Romance."

If you have ever been to an OSU game, the stands are packed for pre-game shows. The fight songs, script Ohio, etc. - the Tradition. For halftime, the stands are half full at best unless people hear through the grapevine that the show is going to be "f***in' awesome." There were tons of classical shows with pretty music that no one was interested in, but when the band formed the Titanic and "sank it" or when the band danced to "Thriller" the crowd went wild.

I personally love old drum corps stuff. I've heard shows from the past 5 or 6 years, and in general, they're boring to me. It's all about abstract music, complex themes, complex dance themes for the guard, and "concert" style playing. I love listening to CDs of the 70s to 90s. Just pure, in your face, sound. You could peel paint with the volume of some corps. Just because you picked a theme didn't mean you stuck with it (ie. 1978 Phantom - "Firebird" that quickly fell into "Into the Hall of the Mountain King" and ended with Beethoven's 9th. A guard that twirled flags and dressed similar to the corps? How obscure!

I think the poster with the comment about meat was dead on. Right now drum corps shows remind me of a Vegan wedding. I've been to one. When the food came out, half of us were ready to sneak out down the street to the BBQ joint. If you put a giant mushroom on the plate garnished with other "organic" vegetables, you're going to leave hungry (unless you're a Vegan). If you put a big slice of meat on the table, you're going to feast and want more. Don't like meat? Maybe, just maybe, we can find a way to make our "Vegan wedding" drum corps become more like Home Town Buffet. We need to get a little bit of everything. Yes, that means laying off some of the things I've seen in the past few seasons, and we need to bring back some things that have been stripped away. I want my "Vegan" friend to get what they want out of the show, theatrics, amps, etc. at the same time I get my meat and potatoes: in your face playing, easy/popular themes.

Great post.

Check out The Umass Band-they have close to 400 members every year.

Great drumline. Probably the best in the country!

[N.E. Brigand]

If you're talking about expanding the activity to a wider non-drum corps audience and an audience that is old enough to be able to pay for tickets, you'd better start thinking about playing some music that's not the latest technical edgy version of some obscure composer from the 1800s or the latest concert band composer who's primarly popular on college campus. Read the repertoire of the 22 23 world class corps. you'll get bored just reading it!

Here is a list of this year's programs.

From that list, these are the composers of works written in the 1800s: Georges Bizet, Alexander Borodin, Johannes Brahms, Dudley Buck, Edward Elgar, Charles Ives, Gustav Mahler, Nicholai Rimsky-Korsakov, Camile Saint-Saens, and Samuel A. Ward.

Of those ten composers, only Ward and Buck might be called "obscure", but I hope you'll forgive me if I doubt that your complaint is directed at "America the Beautiful" and "Festival Variations on the American National Air".

[Jeff Ream]

But, haven't the Cadets had two of the most fan friendly shows the past couple years? I think they've become the opposite of what people are making them out to be.

well, get people on your side, then push the limits. it's not like he didn't try this approach 2000-2003

[Jeff Ream]

wow. an alumnus no less

Since this thread is about relevancy ... then let's stick to the topic. Who is DCI relevant to?

1. Legacy Fans (what's left of them)

2. Recent generation FMM's.

3. Family members of Legacy fans and FMM's

4. High School Marching Band Programs

5. Parents outside of DCI who have kids interested in music (see the Steve Young interview when Champs were in the Rose Bowl a couple years back)

Who is DCI NOT relevant to?

1. Symphony, Opera, Theatre and Orchestra afficianado's.

2. Radio and TV executives

3. Momz and Popz looking to take the family out for some fun

4. Legacy Fans that you've already lost.

How does DCI become more relevant to those listed above. Exceptional marketing. You have to create a case for WHY people would want to listen to this on the radio/satellite or watch it on TV. Reality Tv show that lasts the competitive season? SOunds like a real possibility to me if it were pitched properly (not just the competitive aspect .. but the actual members themselves would need to be followed .. this includes relationships, live on the road, the value structure, getting chewed out by instructors, full length rehearsal segments, fan interviews watching rehearsals and shows .. etc etc etc.) You have to show the world how Crazy, Smart, Dedicated, Loyal, Perfectionistic and once again, CRAZY we are for doing drum corps. If you can't sell that to a smart executive ... you have no chance of being relevant to anyone else anyway. A documentary is not going to do the trick ... and no one other than DCI fans are ever going to see it anyway.

Studio recordings of great pieces of music (not show music) need to be recorded and pitched to the Classical/Jazz stations around the country .. and get them played even if it costs money to make them play it and tell the drum corps story (extremely short version) in order to get more people interested.

Better marketing in the local market of the show sites the week prior to the show is an absolute MUST!!!!!!! Ask Crown what they're doing ... because they get butts in the seats and a good percentage are NEW fans!!

Lastly, revert some of the rules changes and get back to being drum and bugle corps. Without putting a percentage on the Legacy fans that you've lost .. I'll use myself as an example. You've lost 80% of the money I was spending 20 years ago on the activity. You've lost 60% of the money I was spending on the activity 10 years ago. I'm an important demographic to your business model ............... STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS!!!!! The more you ignore the Legacy fans and keep preaching about needing a new market segment to fill to the seats .. the more you tick us off and less money you're going to get from us. So get real! Take a good long look at the shows that were being put on the field when the current age of Drum Corps was most successful (the mid 80's to early 90's). Do your dang homework and maybe, just maybe, you'll stop ticking off the ONCE largest segment of your paying customers. Keep changing things and you're going to lose us altogether.

George Hopkins, most of this post is aimed at you. I know what makes you tick. I know how you game the system to get what you want. I know how you "negotiate". I know how little alumni, fans, legacy and tradition actually mean to you (and you only revert to those things when it shows a clear opportunity to make money). So stop with the BS and retire. You don't want to be there anyway (and I know that for a fact). Step down, shut up and retire to the USSBA side of your organization or leave altogether. You've meddled enough with the activity and personally should take responsibility for the situation DCI is in today (and yes I know you had some help).

Signed,

Dan Hurd

(look me up in your OLD donars list/volunteer list/alumni list)

[supersop]

wow. an alumnus no less

Absolutely!

[Jeff Ream]

Absolutely!

trust me, i know a few who don't qualify for "borg" status. But few speak out on here with their thoughts.

[RetiredJedi]

Lastly, revert some of the rules changes and get back to being drum and bugle corps. Without putting a percentage on the Legacy fans that you've lost .. I'll use myself as an example. You've lost 80% of the money I was spending 20 years ago on the activity. You've lost 60% of the money I was spending on the activity 10 years ago. I'm an important demographic to your business model ............... STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS!!!!! The more you ignore the Legacy fans and keep preaching about needing a new market segment to fill to the seats .. the more you tick us off and less money you're going to get from us. So get real! Take a good long look at the shows that were being put on the field when the current age of Drum Corps was most successful (the mid 80's to early 90's). Do your dang homework and maybe, just maybe, you'll stop ticking off the ONCE largest segment of your paying customers. Keep changing things and you're going to lose us altogether.

George Hopkins, most of this post is aimed at you. I know what makes you tick. I know how you game the system to get what you want. I know how you "negotiate". I know how little alumni, fans, legacy and tradition actually mean to you (and you only revert to those things when it shows a clear opportunity to make money). So stop with the BS and retire. You don't want to be there anyway (and I know that for a fact). Step down, shut up and retire to the USSBA side of your organization or leave altogether. You've meddled enough with the activity and personally should take responsibility for the situation DCI is in today (and yes I know you had some help).

Signed,

Dan Hurd

(look me up in your OLD donars list/volunteer list/alumni list)

I completely understand your frustration.

I hope you didn't blow a blood vessel getting that out... ####!!!

I gotta tell ya, you've got some spine throwing down the gauntlet like that.

[jpaul]

For me, when I was in high school, I didn't have the opportunity to march DCI, mainly because of the cost. I lived in Cleveland, and was within a 2 hour drive of 4 DCI corps: Bluecoats, Glassmen, Cap. Reg., and Marion Glory Cadets. All of them were entirely too expensive for me. So I had to give up any ideas about DCI just because of price.

However, another issue was competition. My high school band was a program that was falling apart: the director was near retirement, the administration hated band, and students were in marching band for the "easy A." As such we had 40 people in marching band, most of which did not memorize their music, and some of which could not even walk on the correct foot or even on the beat. The director didn't care because the students didn't care, and they would blatantly tell him so. As such, he would throw out every mailed invitation and turn down every phone invitation to marching band festivals or contests. So I never once performed on a field in a competition. I had no idea how I would stack up against other people trying out on my instrument.

When I got to college, I tried out for the Ohio State Univ. Marching Band. Once again, I had no idea what competition was, since I was naturally just the best performer in the entire HS band, since most purposely goofed off and would under perform. Obviously I did not make the OSU Band, and decided not to try out after that.

What does all of this have to do with the topic? Here goes:

There are plenty of young men and women who would love to be a part of something great like drum corps. However, many of these people come from families who have very little income, or, as in my case, have to pay to go to Catholic high school because the city's public schools were dangerous and had a <50% graduation rate. Because of that, there wasn't extra spending money. Drum corps needs to become a more community oriented program. If you ignore the community you claim to be based in, you alienate the children of that community. For example, Blue Stars, based in Wisconsin, have rehearsals in Indianapolis. What gives? You can't be a Wisconsin corps and expect interest from people in Wisconsin if you don't rehearse there or do community events there. In general, there seems to be too much focus on obscure markets hours away from the "home base" of the corps. Bring the corps back home, if you will, and your home will be appreciative. The people from all over who want to try out for XYZ corps obviously have the money to do so, so they will still come regardless of where the home city is. There is no reason that corps have to be so expensive. Yes, fuel, maintenance, uniforms, instruments, food, etc. cost money. I know those things aren't free. But you don't need to buy new uniforms every year. You don't need to play on brand new horns every single season. At my high school, the fiberglass Sousaphone I played on was over 30 years old. It was repainted with car paint and the broken pieces were held together by car bondo and white athletic tape. I've read countless stories of the drum corps of the 70s and 80s having the kids play on horns older than them. You can't make any more changes to marching brass aside from adding concert tubas, French horns, trombones, and Sousaphones, so you can keep a line of marching brass for more than one season.

If fuel is killing a corps, don't go on tour so early. My DCA corps doesn't even have a bus or charter contract, we are on our own to get to shows. Have more local shows. I don't know how to do that, but regardless, either do DCA/DCI shows, or regional DCI shows.

The next two are contradictions, sort of. First has to deal with people like myself who never had a high school program that was challenging or competitive. The idea of the tryout process for many drum corps makes a lot of people nervous or not even bother to go to camps. There's no incentive if you feel that you're an underdog anyways. More less competitive programs need to come up. And not like these "cadet" corps that only allow people age 12-15 or whatever. There are plenty of people who would like to be in a "cadet" style, less competitive (internally, for placement) corps so they can get a taste of what drum corps is all about. It seems that the way corps pander to only specific people (competitive marchers who are also music majors or equivalent musical ability) is also shooting them in the foot by not allowing other people to garner interest.

The contradiction of sorts to this has to do with competition. Every year, the OSUMB has 225 members. The instrumentation does not change. The intensity of shows, the traditions on game day, and the competition of tryouts is what keeps the band from having issues filling this instrumentation plan. Every year, anywhere between 350-500 musicians try out for those 225 spots. You get 40-50 tuba players for 28 spots just because most of them want the honor of dotting the "i." There are traditions that the band has that are kept super secret from the new rookies until a special "inititaion" night when they are finally considered worthy, if you will, of learning the secrets.

Yes, looking back on it, the "secrets of the OSUMB" may seem stupid, silly, or childish, but it was a big deal at the time because of the traditions associated with the 130+ year old band. The band does "new" things all the time, but they keep their intensity and drive - the "meat" someone referred to earlier - which keeps everyone coming back to the table. The OSU Athletic Band, which plays at hockey, basketball, volleyball, etc. comprises many of the OSUMB members as well as directing staff. It is often used as an experimentation ground for new music for the OSUMB. A surprising hit with the fans is a custom arrangement of Lady Gaga's "Bad Romance."

If you have ever been to an OSU game, the stands are packed for pre-game shows. The fight songs, script Ohio, etc. - the Tradition. For halftime, the stands are half full at best unless people hear through the grapevine that the show is going to be "f***in' awesome." There were tons of classical shows with pretty music that no one was interested in, but when the band formed the Titanic and "sank it" or when the band danced to "Thriller" the crowd went wild.

I personally love old drum corps stuff. I've heard shows from the past 5 or 6 years, and in general, they're boring to me. It's all about abstract music, complex themes, complex dance themes for the guard, and "concert" style playing. I love listening to CDs of the 70s to 90s. Just pure, in your face, sound. You could peel paint with the volume of some corps. Just because you picked a theme didn't mean you stuck with it (ie. 1978 Phantom - "Firebird" that quickly fell into "Into the Hall of the Mountain King" and ended with Beethoven's 9th. A guard that twirled flags and dressed similar to the corps? How obscure!

I think the poster with the comment about meat was dead on. Right now drum corps shows remind me of a Vegan wedding. I've been to one. When the food came out, half of us were ready to sneak out down the street to the BBQ joint. If you put a giant mushroom on the plate garnished with other "organic" vegetables, you're going to leave hungry (unless you're a Vegan). If you put a big slice of meat on the table, you're going to feast and want more. Don't like meat? Maybe, just maybe, we can find a way to make our "Vegan wedding" drum corps become more like Home Town Buffet. We need to get a little bit of everything. Yes, that means laying off some of the things I've seen in the past few seasons, and we need to bring back some things that have been stripped away. I want my "Vegan" friend to get what they want out of the show, theatrics, amps, etc. at the same time I get my meat and potatoes: in your face playing, easy/popular themes.

I think you're on to something here. This is not a "one size fits all" issue. Not everyone has the same goals, abilities or opportunities. In an ideal world there would be a place for everyone and that would require a little more diversity in the kinds of corps experiences that are available.

[Piper]

Looking back on it, maybe that's why I did corps and not band.

[MarimbasaurusRex]

“Can we figure out how to become what Dave Gibbs [executive director of the Blue Devils] would call ‘relevant?’ Can we figure out how to be relevant again to a large enough community that they’ll be willing to support us?” he said. “Is it enough to go out there and do the shows that we do now or do we have to have a corps be more interesting? Do we have to have something in the pre-show? Do we have to have a post-show or special encores that are fun?"

This is precisely where the leadership has lost it's way. Drum corps is entirely irrelevant as an entertainment medium. But, that is all they look for, ways to make people pay attention to their "art," their shows. It's ego driven. Look what *I* can do! ($1 to Stuart) Add all the bells and whistles you want. Mainstream America will not warm to drum corps shows no matter how great they are. But, they WILL warm to helping kids in need.

I work and volunteer at a high school in gangland south central Los Angeles. Those kids NEED things like drum corps. They WANT things like drum corps. I even considered starting a corps there, but decided it was impossible to do with any success. There was no place for them to perform that didn't require million dollar budgets to be respectable. (City Sound is still trying and kudos to them!) Those kids have enough self esteem problems without sharing a field with BD.

If Dave Gibbs wants to be relevant, he should turn his attention to the hundreds of thousands of kids across the country who really need him, the kids he and others have abandoned for the sake of personal glory.

There was a time when drum corps was very relevant to the community, not for the shows they did, but for the service they provided to youth at risk. That sells tickets. That garners donations. That gets you on PBS and CNN. That earns respect in the eyes of the community at large.

Come on, Dave... Have you got the nuts to stand up and make the world a better place? Or would that cut too hard into your endorsement deals?