GUARDLING Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I know - 27th Lancers were awesome - but guard sheets and criteria are much different now and judging is different now that the guard score is part of the overall corps score. Back in the '80's guards could win with an all flag show (Phantom '88) or by spinning bizarre equipment (Blue Devils '90) - but now you have to have rifle, saber and flag and the overall requirements are different.I'm just talking about the realities of guards today (as someone who has been marching and teaching since the early '80's). Best guards back then were judged on a very subjective level since the scores were not part of the overall score. Later, Mike Scores or not, criteria or not its just as subjective now as it was and this goes for WGI also. The guard activity does have what drives the criteria BUT none the less all still opinion. And NO you do not have to have saber and rifle line even today. IMO ( and I still teach WGI world class and DC we have seen guards go to all one piece of equipment and STILL be as effective if not more so. It's all in programming and written effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summernowplease Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I've been waiting Like someone else has said - limits through 20 male and 20 female performers has ultimately led to females (who may be more talented than the males) getting cut to make room for male performers. The years that they went half and half for sake of design (07, 09), I think that it ended up this way. Regardless, this is just a design choice much like the integration of males in 2005 and 2006 as featured performers - for the sake of the show. I have no knowledge of what the show is, but I'm sure that the design staff and administration would not take a decision like this lightly. I feel for the male vets who wanted to return this year, and I hope they find a good home for a year. That being said, can't wait to see an all PHANTOMETTE guard back on the field!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Why is this okay when a few months ago we were beating someone over the head for looking for a black good looking male guard instructor. Isn't this the same thing. Saying I want only women is like saying I want only Mexicans. And please don't say its tradition. Tradition kept alot of people down for too many years. I'm waiting ( not looking forward to it) for that one young lady that sues the Cavaliers or Madison over keeping her out. Legally the Boy Scouts can't keep out girls just like the Girl Scouts can't keep out boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Why is this okay when a few months ago we were beating someone over the head for looking for a black good looking male guard instructor. Isn't this the same thing. Saying I want only women is like saying I want only Mexicans. And please don't say its tradition. Tradition kept alot of people down for too many years. I'm waiting ( not looking forward to it) for that one young lady that sues the Cavaliers or Madison over keeping her out. Legally the Boy Scouts can't keep out girls just like the Girl Scouts can't keep out boys. I asked that same question years ago ...........corps can really do anything mainly because they are considered private organizations same I believe with boy scouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Bc you just cut the potential talent pool in half. now instead of taking the top 20 guy and top 20 girls, youre settling for 20 people who wouldnt have made the cut if it were a mixed guard. Yeah it's neat to see them have an all female guard and yeah it's tradition, but i'd rather see a competitive phantom regiment vs a non competitive. When's the last time they had a really good all female guard? Competitively this is a stupid move. You've got some flawed logic my friend. You're assuming girls 21-40 arent as talented as guys 1-20, and there is no way to know that. There is a much LARGER pool of female guard talent than male talent, so I think it is entirely possible that corps that march a 50/50 split guard are in fact accessing a shallow talent pool of males that lowers the overall talent of the guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAW Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Bc you just cut the potential talent pool in half. now instead of taking the top 20 guy and top 20 girls, youre settling for 20 people who wouldnt have made the cut if it were a mixed guard. Yeah it's neat to see them have an all female guard and yeah it's tradition, but i'd rather see a competitive phantom regiment vs a non competitive. When's the last time they had a really good all female guard? Competitively this is a stupid move. This would be true except for one glaring issue. You're assuming those who audition are a fixed amount with PR as the only option. Marching 40 by taking the top 20 guys and top 20 girls means you lose 20 girls who marched elsewhere who could have been better than the 20 guys you kept. The only way to ensure the highest talent level is to take the 40 best without regard to gender (which usually doesn't work programatically). Statistically speaking, changing the ratio of males vs females cannot impact the skill level unless you believe one group is more skilled than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I am as "traditional" as they come. However, if this is being done because of tradition, that gets two "thumbs down" . If however, this is a theme based decision, then I am even more curious as to what type of show would "require" an all female guard? I think that is where I'd like to see this conversation go. What shows would necessitate such a change? Swan Lake? Not necessarily? Romeo & Juliette? DUH! Guard Girls Gone Wild? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps8294 Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 (edited) All female guards are much more pleasant to look at anyway; just think back to the likes of Dutch Boy in the late '80s and L'Insolite '94! ;-) Ooo-la-la! Edited October 28, 2010 by shortn'sour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdaddy Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 however, it may be what the show dictates. And I hope it does. I have to agree with those criticizing the move - the limited talent pool is a solid point, but I think the bigger point is the limited show design. The wonderful shows of 2005, 2006, and 2008 (along with the 2009 show that I appreciate) could not have been told the same way with an all-female guard. If the show dictates an all-female guard, then I'm all for it. And if it's a year-to-year decision, cool. But a blanket change in the name of "tradition" only doesn't do it for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDad Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I enjoyed Phantom's guard from time to time in the 90s..1993 was a pretty good year for them...1995 not so much. They held up cardboard tubes with fabric to try to form picture frames and I just didn't like it. Their uniform...I guess they call them costumes now...was purple and not at all flattering. They were good again in 1996 and the read dress was flawless. Then it started to decline...I remember them starting to get really young girls to march and would get former Pioneer guard to come march with them. It was getting harder and harder to maintain an all female guard and then...the Gershwin show introduced the first male guard member...the same year Madison had a girl in the guard. Then it went co-ed. I thought they did an excellent job of storytelling with the guard...acting, I mean. Through last decade and even last year, the guard really helped tell the story of the show. Maybe they'll bring back some of the old moves as well!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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