Lower level corps need horn players too

[JimF-LowBari]

I don't think we can assume members want to march in bigger corps solely to Win, Win, Win. If someone can only afford to march X amount of seasons, I could understand that they may want a specific level of challenge as well. Not that smaller corps have easy shows, but there is often a different level of challenge between the bigger and smaller corps.

Or willing to pay the $$$ for a corps they saw and really enjoyed their show. And a corps that is well known to people who follow corps somewhat. As opposed to "Yeah I want to spend this amount of money for a corps not that well known and I really wasn't impressed by their show".

As my corps got better it was really amazing how easier it was to get quality people to join.

Edited November 22, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[ImperialSound_Director]

The view of smaller corps needs to change from them being lower than another corps to them just being smaller. What I mean from that is that "lower tier" has a connotation that potential marching members have taken notice of of being lower than them. They think they're good enough to march the Cadets, because they were a soloist in X band that participate XOB circuit and won 1st place.

What being a small corps really means is having less members. If a small corps is a bunch of ringers, it still has the ability to win it all, and until we change our words to that, smaller corps still have the disadvantage of the late high school, early college demographic.

[Henson]

Let's say a 17 year old auditions for the Cavaliers because he really likes their image and uniform, and their shows are cool. He's the whiz kid of his local AA high school band from some rural podunk town in Ohio, and thinks he has a shot. Convinces mom and dad to plonk down a few hundred dollars for camp, then another few hundred dollars for another camp.

Fall on his face, confidence shattered when the instructors don't hold the same high opinion of him that he holds for himself - is this sounding likely for a 17 year old trumpet player or snare???

There's a few things he can do. Get mad and hate DCI, and never try out again, convinced that they don't know what they're talking about.

Work a bit harder, grow up a bit more, and try out again next season.

Refocus all of this emotional investment he has in a particular corps identity towards an entirely different corps, going on to have a great season.

With some guys, we'd prefer that they do option 2. Some guys really need the experience of failure to get better. With others, option 3 is best - they'd be great assets for another corps - BUT the problem is convincing mom and dad to plonk down several hundred more dollars towards what they now see as a very thin "maybe."

Am I saying a big part of this problem is audition and camp fees? Maybe...

[Jeff Ream]

Who offers absolutely no quality instruction or experience.

uh really?

[Jeff Ream]

IMO here's parts of the problem:

some kids only want to be with X corps

some kids only want to be with good corps

some kids only want to be with a corps that close

OC corps could do a lot better to market themselves

DCI could do a lot to market OC corps better

lower placing WC corps could do a lot to market themselves better

DCI could do more to market lower placing corps better

there is no one size fits all answer. But I do think if the last 4 were done better, it would help

[BRASSO]

Let's say a 17 year old auditions for the Cavaliers because he really likes their image and uniform, and their shows are cool. He's the whiz kid of his local AA high school band from some rural podunk town in Ohio, and thinks he has a shot. Convinces mom and dad to plonk down a few hundred dollars for camp, then another few hundred dollars for another camp.

Fall on his face, confidence shattered when the instructors don't hold the same high opinion of him that he holds for himself - is this sounding likely for a 17 year old trumpet player or snare???

There's a few things he can do. Get mad and hate DCI, and never try out again, convinced that they don't know what they're talking about.

Work a bit harder, grow up a bit more, and try out again next season.

Refocus all of this emotional investment he has in a particular corps identity towards an entirely different corps, going on to have a great season.

With some guys, we'd prefer that they do option 2. Some guys really need the experience of failure to get better. With others, option 3 is best - they'd be great assets for another corps - BUT the problem is convincing mom and dad to plonk down several hundred more dollars towards what they now see as a very thin "maybe."

Am I saying a big part of this problem is audition and camp fees? Maybe...

And whether intended or not ( the end result is the same ) the top Corps both bleed the lower tier Corps of talent AND at the same time have in place a system that sends 80% of the tryout out kids who don't make the top Corps, home... in other words, take their money, and have a system in place that after you take their money, there's no money left for the marcher to enable the recruit to try out for another Corps. Oh man, if I 'm a top Gee- Whiz Corps Director, and I want to stay on top forever, I LOVE this annual system regarding camps, fees, tryouts. It's a winner for me and my Corps like you wouldn't believe.

Edited November 22, 2010 by BRASSO

[corpsband]

IMO here's parts of the problem:

some kids only want to be with X corps

some kids only want to be with good corps

some kids only want to be with a corps that close

OC corps could do a lot better to market themselves

DCI could do a lot to market OC corps better

lower placing WC corps could do a lot to market themselves better

DCI could do more to market lower placing corps better

there is no one size fits all answer. But I do think if the last 4 were done better, it would help

I still think my idea for DCI-sponsored auditions would address a lot of these issues. The answer obviously has to be bit "outside the box". The current system just propagates the same behavior at all levels of the activity.

[bersurkman]

And whether intended or not ( the end result is the same ) the top Corps both bleed the lower tier Corps of talent AND at the same time have in place a system that sends 80% of the tryout out kids who don't make the top Corps, home... in other words, take their money, and have a system in place that after you take their money, there's no money left for the marcher to enable the recruit to try out for another Corps. Oh man, if I 'm a top Gee- Whiz Corps Director, and I want to stay on top forever, I LOVE this annual system regarding camps, fees, tryouts. It's a winner for me and my Corps like you wouldn't believe.

I see the point of view of each corps as it does have its costs to house and feed all of these kids for a weekend. Camp fees are necessary to cover that expense. But $200 from 300 kids is excessive. Although $60,000 does go a long way to helping with other expenses down the road. IMHO I feel that they should charge only enough to cover these costs and not have the audition process become a money maker for each corps.

[Bruckner8]

And whether intended or not ( the end result is the same ) the top Corps both bleed the lower tier Corps of talent AND at the same time have in place a system that sends 80% of the tryout out kids who don't make the top Corps, home... in other words, take their money, and have a system in place that after you take their money, there's no money left for the marcher to enable the recruit to try out for another Corps. Oh man, if I 'm a top Gee- Whiz Corps Director, and I want to stay on top forever, I LOVE this annual system regarding camps, fees, tryouts. It's a winner for me and my Corps like you wouldn't believe.

I really don't know where you're getting your information, BRASSO. I usually agree with your thoughts around here, but you're so far off the deep end on this one, it's almost laughable.

Can you explain how Crown and Bloo has beat this so-called flawed system? Can you explain how SCV and Phantom both managed to fall out of the top 6 recently? Even after PR had WON?

Success breeds success. Each corps gets about half kids who want nothing more than to be with that corps, and half who only want to do drum corps cuz a friend suggested, it's close by, or 100 other reasons.

Every top corps provides "cut lists" to every lower corps, FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of making sure every kid gets a shot at marching SOMEWHERE. Believe it or not, there are lots of qualified players on these lists, but there aren't enough spots!

I can't understand the mentality of someone who's ###### at very good corps for basically being very good; for being desired by the youth of America. we can't force these cuts to march elsewhere!

[DreaminMello]

When I marched Corps, I didn't travel across the US and March with BD or SCV. I stayed close to home, and marched with a local Corps. Maybe this is something we need to reconsider. THEN after getting your feet wet, decide if you would like to move to a Top 12 corps. Personally I think the intensity with a smaller corps is the same, as is the friends you make while marching. What I have also found interesting over the year (Could be a good thread topic) is the age of the top 12. Again, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, was not too uncommon for 14 or 15 year olds to march top 12. Look at you tube if you doubt me. Now it seems we are looking at 18-23 (yup I included the illegals as well) exclusively. Points to ponder.