BRASSO Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Let's be honest, most judges know what scores they are going to give a corps prior to them taking the field. In fact, if you talked honestly to almost any judge, they probably know not only what score they are going to give, but what the other judges are going to score them as well. I'm pretty sure ( for just one example )Kyle Miller and George Oliviero don't have any clue whatsoever what the other is thinking on Guard performance nor what the other is going to do when it comes to judging Guard before a competition takes place. I " get " that a lot of fans are not happy with the scoring. But the notion that a judge knows beforehand what he or she is going to give a Corps in performance... and knows what other judges in completely different captions that nite alongside them are going to do is just plain silly. No percussion judge for example has any idea what a Guard judge might do in a competition in which the percussion judge will be judging alongside that guard judge. Just look at the percussion scores and judge scores in Guard from this season. They are all over the place..... even among caption judges with the caption themselves from show to show. Some of the judges that have hammered a Corps earlier in the season has been known to score them more highly later. And frankly, vice versa too. ( ie score them highly.. then lower later ) Edited July 29, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I'm pretty sure ( for just one example )Kyle Miller and George Oliviero don't have any clue whatsoever what the other is thinking on Guard performance nor what the other is going to do when it comes to judging Guard before a competition takes place. I " get " that a lot of fans are not happy with the scoring. But the notion that a judge knows beforehand what he or she is going to give a Corps in performance... and knows what other judges in completely different captions that nite alongside them are going to do is just plain silly. No percussion judge for example has any idea what a Guard judge might do in a competition in which the percussion judge will be judging alongside that guard judge. Just look at the percussion scores and judge scores in Guard from this season. They are all over the place..... even among caption judges with the caption themselves from show to show. Some of the judges that have hammered a Corps earlier in the season has been known to score them more highly later. And frankly, vice versa too. ( ie score them highly.. then lower later ) not gonna get into who should be up or down BUT Judges do know from show to show what has happened before going into a show...now it doesnt mean 1 person will follow another... agree If I were a guard judge why would I can what ther drum judge is doing...I wouldnt....judges opinions do change one way or another also as you said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) not gonna get into who should be up or down BUT Judges do know from show to show what has happened before going into a show. Judges don't live in an isolation booth, so of course they know what Corps have been scoring. But thats not what you said above. You said that a judge knows what he or she is going to put down for a score number in competition in a show and know what judges alongside him or her judging that show are going to put down in scoring the Corps. That crosses over into the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy wing of DCP'ers. You're not in that wing... or are you ? Edited July 29, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Judges don't live in an isolation booth, so of course they know what Corps have been scoring. But thats not what you said above. You said that a judge knows what he or she is going to put down for a score number in competition in a show and know what judges alongside him or her judging that show are going to put down in scoring the Corps. That crosses over into the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy wing of DCP'ers. You're not in that wing... or are you ? well i wont say it hasnt happend before ( knowing what a judge along side is doing ) But I meant was in advance...judges do check..at least many do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magbo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 What I thought of the top 12 on the webcast: Blue Stars - Still some visual dirt, but it got drastically cleaner even from San Antonio from the high cam, at least I thought. Blue Knights - Same as Blue Stars, they're starting to lock on this, and I'm starting to like it. Spirit - Some changes, good ones, and a nice solid run just like they've been having. Watch their backs though. Madison - Lots of changes, and I attribute that to their placement drop. Shocked the see the drumline that low honestly. Cavaliers - Show deigns still not working, but they are really starting to sell it. REALLY. Boston - They're performing at a very high level with a great show, and an amazing guard that earned 5th last night. Bluecoats - I finally got what this show as trying to say, and it's back at the top of my list after disappointing me live in San Antonio, if you watch the Flume video they posted on the fan network, the voices and stuff will make a lot more sense. Santa Clara Vanguard - I agree and hope they work Music of the Nights transition a little more, but otherwise still my favorite this year. Beautiful show. Phantom Regiment - Great new ending!!! Some issues in it though performance wise, can kinda see why Cadets overtook em, but I have a feeling they're going to go back and forth the rest of the season. Cadets - They had a great run, nice job drumline! Crown - They sounded amazing, visual is getting there, but the drums had a rougher run that I was expecting. BD - Wow, I like this show and they deserve to be winning. Like the newish ending, and a very strong run. No weakness's is a dangerous thing. Very dangerous. What changes did you notice in Madison since their show in San Antonio? I didn't notice any, but I'm wondering why they dropped to 9th...Maybe some new drill that hasn't yet been perfected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterA Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I'm pretty sure ( for just one example )Kyle Miller and George Oliviero don't have any clue whatsoever what the other is thinking on Guard performance nor what the other is going to do when it comes to judging Guard before a competition takes place. I " get " that a lot of fans are not happy with the scoring. But the notion that a judge knows beforehand what he or she is going to give a Corps in performance... and knows what other judges in completely different captions that nite alongside them are going to do is just plain silly. No percussion judge for example has any idea what a Guard judge might do in a competition in which the percussion judge will be judging alongside that guard judge. Just look at the percussion scores and judge scores in Guard from this season. They are all over the place..... even among caption judges with the caption themselves from show to show. Some of the judges that have hammered a Corps earlier in the season has been known to score them more highly later. And frankly, vice versa too. ( ie score them highly.. then lower later ) This is more than fans not being happy with the judging. But let's be honest, most judges know, within a 2 tenths range, where they are going to put a corps. It has been that way for years. That is how many people in the stands can preguess scores before the shows. I am not saying they are always inaccurate, but we would be blind to not be aware of the situation. Last night I too would have had Scouts in 9th, although I would have had Cavies ahead of Boston(who has my 2nd favorite show of the year, and Cavies have my 10th favorite show, although it is definitely moving up after last night). But I was merely answering to the post that the time slot has more to do with judging, while each judge knows approximately where everyone fits in, in each caption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) well i wont say it hasnt happend before ( knowing what a judge along side is doing ) But I meant was in advance...judges do check..at least many do I would actually encourage judges to go watch performances stored on Fan Network so they get an idea what to look for, as well as critique themselves after a show to once more look at the performance they judged. Only 2 things could happen if they did so it seems to me: a)it reinforces that they got it right the first time OR B) makes them rethink their score given. The Fan Network might actually be a better vantage point for the Visual and Guard caption judges to reevaluate and self critique themselves post show. Unlike the live show that they judged, these caption judges can freeze frame the performance to check visual demand and complexity, formations, lines, spacing, intervals,covers, feet, positioning, etc etc to see if their rapid and first impressions were accurate.. or not. My guess, I would not be surprised too learn at all that some DCI judges are already availing themselves of this opportunity via Fan Network. And if they are not, then perhaps they should be encouraged to do so. Nothing like better and more accurate info for a judge to get a better handle on things for himself or herself. Edited July 29, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Agreed. What the BD haters on here can't wrap their heads around is not that people are booing because they think BD's show is bad, they are booing because they want their corps to win. It is totally different. I am willing to bet 99% of the people in the audience (and hell, probably on DCP as well) can't tell the difference in performance levels between the top 6 at all. To think that they are able to pick up on the nuances of what the judges pick up in a way that let's them be able to decide who the winner should be based on the performance level and not just "who they like" or "who their favorite corps is" is moronic. The only thing the idiots that boo in the crowd understand when the scores are announced is that their favorite corps didn't win, not that BD's performance level was below that of Crown's. Woohoo ! More BD-honk mind-reading. I swear to god they're ALL on the psychic friends network this year. The crowd boo's because they disagree with the outcome. WHY they disagree -- you don't (and can't know). Edited July 29, 2012 by corpsband 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I would actually encourage judges to go watch performances stored on Fan Network so they get an idea what to look for, as well as critique themselves after a show to once more look at the performance they judged. Only 2 things could happem if they did so: a) reinforevces that they got it right and B) makes them rethink their score given. The Fan Network might actually be a better vantage point for the Visual and Guard caption judges to reevaluate and self critique themselves post show. Unlike the live show that they judged, these caption judges can freeze frame the performance to check formations, lines, spacing, intervals, etc to see if threir first impressions were accurate.. or not. My guess, I would not be surprised too learn at all that some DCI judges are already availing themselves of this opportunity via Fan Network. And if they are not, then perhaps they should be encouraged to do so. Nothing like better and more accurate info for a judge to get a better handle on things for himself or herself. interesting thought...we've said that for years..problem is 1/2 the cotps who won BITD wouldnt have..I love when honkers get on here and talk about so and so being the hottest corps in history then you can go on you tube and see the championship performance and go WTF...lol...I can say that because I marched one of those corps..lookin back I was like 1st...how did we even sweat back then and 2nd...we won with that?...lol judges do what you say though in meetings post season with videos of some corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 What changes did you notice in Madison since their show in San Antonio? I didn't notice any, but I'm wondering why they dropped to 9th...Maybe some new drill that hasn't yet been perfected? A lot of subtle drill and music changes. Not any huge changes, but a lot of little ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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