MikeD Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Change is a constant - it's true.... BUT it's naive to say "change is good". Good change is good. Bad change is bad. DCI has had some of both over the last few years. The trick is to hang on to the good change and have the integrity to toss the bad change, if we can come to a consensus on what changes fall into which camp. Of course, the 'we' only really involves those folks who make the decisions...we can talk all day long here on DCP...and we do...but we have no way to 'toss' anything. Really, the designers end up including the elements they think best...and some things that are legal are just not used, or rarely so...how much micced singing is there this year? How much extnesive narration, a la Cadets 2008, do you hear? Not all that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 well thats the big question....and has always been the question and of course depends who you talk to..its all subjective Agreed - so how will we ever get an idea of where Drum Corps should go in terms of audience appeal and long term retention of fan base? Serious question. You've got to keep the people happy if you want to keep them as customers, so who are the people and what will keep the majority of them happy, and willing to throw money into this activity? Essentially I'm advocating some risk analysis on things like design, electronics, and as the OP pointed out, dancing vs. marching. I think DCI needs to consider this vs. letting the designers do whatever they want with whatever they want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) I definitely think that DCI missed the boat in their new so-called fan-friendly judging system. IMHO most fans (and not just "dinosaurs") believe that a well-executed and innovative marching show should be rewarded more than a show with less marching that uses props to literally prop-up their visual effectiveness. I agree that we are really getting away from our roots by doing this --- we still call ourselves drum corps, right? You don't have to look any farther than the Olympics to see that in international sports that difficulty is essential in achieving a good score. In gymnastics, for example, you start with a maximum score based on difficulty, and then you are judged on how well you execute it. Yes, you can add to your score for unique artistic moves as well --- but it is secondary to difficulty and execution. I'm not saying by any means that I want to see artistic growth stunted in drum corps, but we shouldn't be getting further and further away from what makes this activity really special --- great brass, percussion and MARCHING! I was just at lunch thinking about the Olympics as well, i.e. difficulty and/or start value type concepts. Drum corps these days is pretty wide-open on the creativity front. I'm not sure about the mechanics of implementing any sort of "compulsory" items movement and music wise, while at the same time not stifling creativity. It just seems to me that the design/structure has more influence on the score than the actual performance of the show. If corps could begin with a start score, or maximum possible based on the planned show elements, as long as they attempted all the elements, the only judging would be - did they do all that was planned? and, deductions for performance imperfections. Edited August 3, 2012 by c mor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.l. Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I believe that all your paragrahs except your last paragraph pretty much was spot on regarding what has transpired. But from this historical sketch, you concluded in your final paragrapoh that all the Corps next year will copy the Blue Devils 2012 type show. But I don't see Corps all rallying around the Blue Devils type show at all. We've never had Corps all follow the leader and winning Corps in the past the following year. Thats because even the DCI Championship winning Corps does not always follow the same style show the following year. When The Cadets won with The Zone, Phantom Regiment did not change their style, and when Phantom Regiment won with "Spartacus" in 2008, the BD did not change their style at all for 2009, and so on and so forth. I agree with this. We saw what happened when Cadets tried to replicate what they did in 2005 in 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I was just at lunch thinking about the Olympics as well, i.e. difficulty and/or start value type concepts. Drum corps these days is pretty wide-open on the creativity front. I'm not sure about the mechanics of implementing any sort of "compulsory" items movement and music wise, while at the same time not stifling creativity. It just seems to me that the design/structure has more influence on the score than the actual performance of the show. If corps could begin with a start score, or maximum possible based on the planned show elements, as long as they attempted all the elements, the only judging would be - did they do all that was planned? and, deductions for performance imperfections. performance imperfections, we had back in the day with the Tic system..that was a worse hot mess than now and was just as subjective 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Agreed - so how will we ever get an idea of where Drum Corps should go in terms of audience appeal and long term retention of fan base? Serious question. You've got to keep the people happy if you want to keep them as customers, so who are the people and what will keep the majority of them happy, and willing to throw money into this activity? Essentially I'm advocating some risk analysis on things like design, electronics, and as the OP pointed out, dancing vs. marching. I think DCI needs to consider this vs. letting the designers do whatever they want with whatever they want. well its a dilemma I guess if we go back to " marching as we knew it " music, much more structure etc etc..you lose many of the people teaching now as well as new members coming in...if we continue the way we are some believe thats why we are losing older people. ( I dont agree with that but thats me..lol) I actually think we are walking that line pretty well.....theres enough shows for the older person to like as well as the opposite...the problem comes in with people is that some want it all. If something new exsists they dont want it and dont want to see it with anyone. I ve said it before ...WE DONT HAVE TO LIKE EVERYONE. it doesnt make the style right or wrong just different from what an individual likes....so I say dont watch who you dont like, take a break, get a hot dog, buy a souvie, go to the bathroom. Personally, even though I marched BITD I hate alot of the cheezy shows, but many dont and thats great I dont have to like everyone either.....what a sad world if we were stifled and like everything, diversity is a great thing.....yes even in drum corps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schickmeister Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 You want things to REALLY change? Take away the scoreboard... Think about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 performance imperfections, we had back in the day with the Tic system..that was a worse hot mess than now and was just as subjective Yeah, I know...I was there too - marched from 71-78 and taught a couple of years after that. However, I have heard some recent percussion judging "tapes". You can hear the errors, and the judge commenting on them, which is cool. It is just that each one is not given a specific "tic" of a deduction, but more of a general feeling of how the line is performing that day. Of course you'll always still have the issue of the judge being in or out of position to hear the passage of the moment. I was close to the front at ATL and watched the judge having to run back and forth to catch what he could. There is never a way to catch absolutely every error. Do they have two on field judges for each caption during Finals week? In the tic era, they rotated around - seems like there was always one at the snares. I don't have answers, just trying to think of possible ways for performance to have a larger part in the final score...assuming, of course, that is desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 well its a dilemma I guess if we go back to " marching as we knew it " music, much more structure etc etc..you lose many of the people teaching now as well as new members coming in...if we continue the way we are some believe thats why we are losing older people. ( I dont agree with that but thats me..lol) I actually think we are walking that line pretty well.....theres enough shows for the older person to like as well as the opposite...the problem comes in with people is that some want it all. If something new exsists they dont want it and dont want to see it with anyone. I ve said it before ...WE DONT HAVE TO LIKE EVERYONE. it doesnt make the style right or wrong just different from what an individual likes....so I say dont watch who you dont like, take a break, get a hot dog, buy a souvie, go to the bathroom. Personally, even though I marched BITD I hate alot of the cheezy shows, but many dont and thats great I dont have to like everyone either.....what a sad world if we were stifled and like everything, diversity is a great thing.....yes even in drum corps If it was just one or two shows, I'd say we were the same as back in the day. Unfortunately, of the 2011 DVDs, I watch only two corps consistently, and one or two others occasionally. Looking at FN I think it will be the same story this year, although some of the players have changed. Next year, if I do order FN at all I'll order the reduced package without the DVDs. Now it's true - I'm just one guy - but do we really know the impact of the last few years on the fanbase? If you don't like the new stuff, it's huge, if you do like it, it's minimal. The truth will be in the middle somewhere, but being a niche market, that's not something to be ignored. If electronics disappeared tomorrow, on the other hand, how many kids would not come out to auditions on that basis? How many would stop buying the DVDs or attending shows if there were no audio samples. Lot's? None? Same? I can't see that having an impact. So - weigh your options, DCI..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I just cancelled all my room nights in Indy except for Saturday night I don't like the dancing horn lines or the shows very much this year, finals only will be enough it's all your kids I didn't go to a show this year. I instead chose to watch on Fan Network. I understand what you're saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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