jonnyboy Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) Who's saying that?! Like, one poster in this thread? No one from ToC/MiM or DCI is spinning it that way. It was actually from another thread. Take away the ToC participants, and there is only one other DCI World Champion in the 40+ years of DCI competing (and one that hasn't won DCI in 25 years at that). Take away the ToC participants, and you take away every DCI Champion since 1992: or the past 15 DCI seasons' Champions; or the last 37/40 seasons of Champions! That is really significant! The ToC participants account for FORTY total DCI World Championships, plus one Div. 2/Open Class Championship. The entire rest of the World Class field outside of the ToC accounts for 2 DCI World Championships (the last one from 25 years ago), and a myriad of Div. 2 and 3 & Open Class Championships, the last wining Div. 2 in in 2006. Again, that is pretty significant! Interesting stats, can't argue that one. Why not count the TOC total membership historically to the rest of DCI? Maybe 10-20%?. DCI is about serving kids not winning golds. Why not count the amount of corps making it to championships week? Even currently they account for about 1/4 or the corps on the road this summer, in years past that fraction was smaller. I'd also be curious to compare souvies revenue from ToC corps to the rest of the WC corps. Or the amount of people who audition for ToC corps vs the amount of people who audition for the rest of the WC corps. Or the amount of people in the stands Thursday night for the last seven groups vs the first seven, or the middle seven. I would bet those numbers are pretty significant as well. We might be surprised with the souvie numbers, but I do suspect the TOC has the lions share. People do come to see the G7 corps at shows, can't argue that one. Just because they are favs and make the most money DOES NOT give them the right to eliminate the rest of the corps from the chance to participate or sell T shirts. I'm not saying one group is better than another, but if you're going to try to play goofy word games and play around with loose facts & stats, I think it's important to talk about just what the Tournament of Champions/Music in Motion organizations represent to DCI as far as competition and consistent excellence. And again, I would LOVE to see Scouts, Boston Crusaders, Blue Stars, Crossmen, Spirit of Atlanta, Troopers, and Jersey Surf from a Tour of Favorites combine: better yet, schedule shows head-to-head with the Tour of Champions and lets see what the crowds support more (I suspect there's more than enough room for both organizations to be successful). But as soon as you try to marginalize the contributions to the activity of the corps involved, I think the argument turns to nonsense Sorry for the goofy word games, not my intention. I am a poor writer who is passionate about this issue, that is my defense. I disagree that it is important to talk about the G7 corps and their importance to DCI. The story as I see it is that the G7 are continuing to make a power play for more of the money. My personal opinion is that they should make their extra dough off the competition field, and let others continue to play along....especially the smaller corps that get a significant percentage of their budget from DCI tour fees. I really disagree with having a different tour go against the TOC tour. If the G7 want to start their own tour, let them. I suspect that they need DCI more than DCI needs them. My true wish for 2013 is that it's the last we see of the TOC concept as it currently exists. Edited August 5, 2013 by jonnyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I agree with everything you wrote. So my question is, how is the current situation in 2013 a more symbiotic relationship than say, 2005? or 2000? or 2008? An unnecessary schism has been corps has been created, and IMO it will not benefit EITHER group... I would love to be wrong; I just don't think I am. :sad:/> That's a good point, and I agree it is highly possible (likely?) that the current ToC model will not work for either. I would say that the current situation is different that the other years you reference because instead of just internal bickering (as was likely the case for DCI and its member corps in 200, 2005, 2008, etc), the activity now has DCI + the ToC series of shows run by the seven corps and not DCI. Also, the ToC participating corps are still first & foremost DCI member corps competing within the DCI tour and focusing on DCI Championships. The symbiotic relationship, which I think of as two organisms (groups, people, organizations, etc) that must rely on each other in order to survive: more specifically, I think of DCI & ToC as an example of Mutualism Symbiotic relationship where both parties coexist & benefit. Best example I can think of would be human & domesticated dog's mutual symbiotic relationship, where the dogs provide protection and companionship while humans provide food & shelter. DCI's benefit is same as it always has been: they get to exclusively use all member corps in marketing, they reap the rewards of ToC participating corps' fans attending DCI shows, DCI member corps reap the financial benefits of revenue sharing of DCI events. Essentially the top groups are a pretty large draw, and I would say it is inarguable that fans of those corps bring in much needed revenue by way of FN subscriptions, ticket buying, etc. While it is impossible (maybe?) for us to say with 100% certainty how many people attend shows or watch live streams to see the top 7 or 8 corps, it is obvious that stands are more full at Quarters & Semis for the Top 7 groups than they are for the bottom 7 groups, Open Class Finals, etc. Heck, they get to continue to use 'Marching Music's Major League' slogan, as that would be difficult if DCI's Champion would possibly place in the lower of a full corps Championship Finals (and I bet DCI would not be hyped about using 'Marching Music's Minor League' as a slogan). The ToC corps, on the other hand, benefit because they still can rely on DCI's tour + logistics to get them through the summer. The corps probably could not financially support a completely exclusive tour as well as financially support their drum corps organizations. They get to maintain bragging rights of generally being DCI's elite, they get guaranteed paychecks from DCI events. In short they can have their cake & eat it to, so to speak. They at the very least get to partially go out on their own to see if their ideas & philosophies are viable: even if they absolutely fail, at least they could feel as though they explored their options. Both groups benefit, albeit DCI's end of the deal is status quo. But I suspect status quo is FAR more appealing than the alternative of losing the Top corps of the activity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 It's called TOC because DCI has an obligation to its member corps to promote them and the activity in the most effective way. And the seven corps that make up the TOC are still all DCI member corps. The TOC name and concept is a better marketing approach than MiM or "The Successful Corps Club". What better name to call it that does the expected service to DCI's members? (and I'm bracing for some doozie examples) the top 6 this year and Cavies 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Ah, but by that assumption you'd have to call it a success. These corps made no secret of their disdain for local shows because they put more money in the pockets of local show hosts. I know you know this, but it was always about capturing the drum corps fans to come to a super-show and absorbing all that fan money themselves. Only the local band programs suffer. But the fallacy is in the assumption that fans will traverse the distance to see super shows. They won't - well, some will, but not enough, IMO to replace the DCI revenue from 45 local shows. And the advent, and improvement, of the Fan Network will change even more the decision to drive 150 miles to a show. And not in the TOC's (G7's) favor, IMO. well I know YEA was handing out $10 off coupons last night at East to draw people tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownBariDad Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Has anyone figured out the new averages and spreads to see who has to score what tonight to win the TOC? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Has anyone figured out the new averages and spreads to see who has to score what tonight to win the TOC? Thread topic is: predictions...rankings...etc. seems like more etc. than anything else. there are 3 TOC threads running simultaneously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) the top 6 this year and Cavies Or, if the seeding for Thursday is right, The Top 7. Edited August 5, 2013 by Slingerland 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CACTSC Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) I don't think you can only compare to nearby shows within a day or two, but you have to look at all nearby shows throughout the season. It seems unlikely to me that there's no effect on the other shows. How did the Olathe, KS show do this year? Metamora, IL? Dallas? Eh, it's impossible to isolate, but I don't think the TOC shows are generating more money in the pockets of local DCI fans. The Olathe show people told me in person that their ticket sells were seriously hurt by the Warrensburg show. And I'm sure that's not the only one. Edited August 5, 2013 by CACTSC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 well I know YEA was handing out $10 off coupons last night at East to draw people tonight Good marketing idea. If I was not in Mexico, as I am now, I would hae gone and used it. Great idea of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Good marketing idea. If I was not in Mexico, as I am now, I would hae gone and used it. Great idea of them. oh it makes sense. Especially with two nights already there, and I believe prices were a tad higher than per night of East, but expenses had to be much lower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.