A few thoughts on DCI then, now, & future...

[jasgre2000]

I haven't posted anything in a long while. But this is a perfect thread to voice my concern with the state of DCI.

I'm a long time DCI fan, dating back to 1978, but have been involved as a parent the past 5 years. While I've seen some great shows over this recent period, I am very concerned about the direction of the activity as it relates to fan enjoyment. The bottom line is DCI needs money to survive, and these "out there" esoteric shows are going to keep losing fans and revenue. And that will be followed by loss of sponsorships from equipment manufacturers as the attendance drops. And then DCI is dead.

I can appreciate the artistic side of what these designers are doing, but the masses aren't going to pay $45 - $125 to sit through 3 hours of these type shows. I was at the Atlanta show, which BTW felt more like a BOA contest than a DCI show. The crowd reaction, or lack of reaction, to BD's show was very telling. It apparently was not enjoyed by the majority, and I doubt very many ran out to tell their friends "man, you've got to see this show!!". Unfortunately the folks who appreciate fine art, indie foreign films, deep thought books, etc are a select few, certainly not enough to fill a 50K seat stadium. Just compare the attendance of the Atlanta DCI show to the Honda Classic Battle of the Bands. Now, I am in NO WAY advocating any corps adopt an HBCU show band style, simply pointing out that those show bands give the audience what they want, and they fill that stadium up every year.

If DCI wants to grow this activity, and get it back to the attendance levels it had in the 80's, then it has to change the sheets to promote fan accessibility. For you younger fans, simply go to YouTube or Fan Network, and watch any show from 1980 - 1996, enjoy the music and watch the crowds (25,000+ strong) go crazy after each song. Yea, I'm an old schooler but I'm also a marketing guy. I know that if folks don't like your product they're gonna stop buying it, and then you're done.

BD has had much more esoteric shows than this year's show over the last five years, and yet there are still huge crowds at places like San Antonio and Atlanta. I'm not sure it is BD that is driving people away. In fact ... if I am not mistaken, audience sizes seem to have been going up, not down, over the last several years. Combine that fact with the growth of the Fan Network and I'm not sure the problem of a shrinking fan base really exists in the first place.

For all the constant whining here on DCP, it seems like DCI is actually in a period of growth right now. It isn't rapid growth, but I haven't seen any evidence that DCI is worse off now, in terms of its fan base, than it was five years ago.

Edited August 6, 2013 by jasgre2000

[charlie1223]

Every time I read threads like this I have this urge to tease everyone and say "nah nah nah nah nah nahhhh I like modern drum corps!!! And you don't!!! nah nah nah nah nah nah!!!"

And then be like "And I like the old school too!"

I feel that can infuriate... And then wonder why exactly that should infuriate anyone?! As if enjoyment of these enhancements is some how part of their problem. Be jealous of my tastes! :w00t:/> :ph34r:/> :music:/> :devil:/>

Edited August 6, 2013 by charlie1223

[Quad Aces]

In fact ... if I am not mistaken, audience sizes seem to have been going up, not down, over the last several years.

At the risk of hijacking the thread and turning it into another attendance thread...

Where are you getting these figures from?

Edited August 6, 2013 by Quad Aces

[Tim K]

Benny Goodman would like a word with you about that one...

I'm talking about high school jazz bands. Most arrangements do not include flutes or clarinets, much to the chagrin of this a former clarinetist. Perhaps that has changed because I have not been to a high school jazz band concert in years but I have a feeling it hasn't--my niece is learning saxophone so she can participate in jazz band in high school.

And if you're wondering why I'm a former clarinetist, it's due to crowns. Not the Carolina Crown kind, the kind my dentist gives.

[sabrefan62]

I'll add my two cents:

For background, I never marched with a corps, a mistake I regret to this day. I was eligible to march up through 2003, but never made the leap. I was introduced to DCI in 1997 by a marching band friend that marched with the Patriots. My first show was, coincidentally, Drums Along the Waterfront at Dunn Tire Park in Buffalo (or whatever it is called now; before they moved it to Ralph Wilson Stadium). My first finals was 2000 in Maryland and I went to finals in Buffalo the next year. I always tried to make it to at least one regional and another local show. I haven't been to finals in years, but that's because life caught up with me with kids and such. I have, however, been a consistent subscriber to Fan Network since it started.

As for my comments:

- I will agree with previous posters that the talent on the field is incredible these days. I like to think that I was once a decent trumpet player (made all-state band in my senior year in HS), but I don't think I'd have any chance to make the top corps these days.

- That said, my interest in the product has been waning significantly in the past few years. I only subscribed to FN last night since I figured I'd give DCI the support and I'd check out last night's show (what a mistake!) and semi-finals.

- I've watched many of the shows from the Allentown regional, and I have to agree with many of the previous posters that the amplification/electronics/narration is overwhelming and distracting. Far too many fake sounds, mic'd soloists, and voiceovers to make the shows enjoyable. I had seen video's of Crown's show in youtube prior and watched a few older shows on FN and I can't take the d.a.m.n counting over and over and over. I understand its from the original music, but I wanted to pull my hair out and shove pencils in my ears. It may be a great show, but every time I hear the counting, I look at the front ensemble and lose all focus.

- The day a clarinet or a saxophone steps foot on a DCI field is the day I'm done with this activity for good (if that day doesn't come sooner).

I've spent a lot of money on DCI over the past 15 years, but unfortunately, I just don't see that happening as much as more.

[Tim K]

An obscure composer like ... Stravinsky? Or Barber? Or Glass? Who exactly are you referring to?

While I would not call any of the three you mentioned obscure, Stravinsky and Barber were better known in their lifetimes than Philip Glass, though that is due more to our age of instant celebrities and pop culture than the quality of his work.

That being said, there does seem to be the theory among some, that music by contemporary composers categorized as classical, is more challenging than the tried and true classics. I'm not sure I agree. The Metropolitan Opera did not perform "Tristan und Isolde" for nearly twenty years because it could not assemble a worthy cast. I don't recall the same issues with "Mahagony" or "Lulu."

Now there's no question "Rigoletto" is a better known opera than "Einstein on the Beach." Let's just say you take an opera newbie to these two operas. Chances are the newbie will be whistling the music from one and with the other wonder "What the...." as they hear what a friend refers to as Sesame Street on drugs with the "One, two three, four, one two three four five six, one two, there, four, five, six, seven, eight." Would "Rigoletto" work on the drum corps field? It has screamer potential, and great melodies, and I'd love to hear the Act IV quartet attempted, but it may be wishful thinking. "Einstein on the Beach" is working very well for Crown and it is audience friendly.

One of the challenges drum corps face is "it's all been done" and to some extent it has all been done. Newer classical pieces do help with originality and perhaps in some cases degree of difficulty. When it's well done and audience accessible, it can be a great success. However, if the audience is left scratching it's head wondering what they just saw, was it effective? In judges eyes, perhaps, but to ticket holders who help pay the performance fees of corps through the ticket price, not to mention souvenirs, donations to gas funds, etc. it may not be a treat. Remember, most people who want to be educated about contemporary music go to concert galls, not drum corps shows, and I say this as someone who attends both.

[Sam98]

"I don't get all the little dancing and pirouettes and gestures that the members do every time they change positions, how can that really raise GE at all? It looks fruity."

As one of those "fruits" you mention in your post, I really resent your remark. The LGBT community is EVERYWHERE on the drum corps field, from the design team, to management, to the performers themselves.

Just a thought from one of the "fruits."

[Tim K]

The difference is that the CYO Nationals in the mid 70's had an audience of approx. 18,000. The CYO Nationals of 2013 had an audience of approx. 4,000. I attended both. The loss of former fans is sad. The 1980 DCI Championships Finals audience that saw the Finals Live was a little over 38,000. We all seem to agree that the Corps are bigger, better, have more talent than 1980. But the number of people that will see Finals live is much less than half that of 1980. We can't continue to stick our heads in the stands and say its ok to have former fans decide to walk away without a plan to replace them with newer fans that will continue to support the activity year after year once being first exposed to it.

By 1984 (the last year of the original run) the numbers at CYO Nationals dwindled considerably but I'm not sure it was due to former fans abandoning the activity. The CYO Circuit was either gone or about to fold. When I marched with St. Joe's in Medway (gasp, we had woodwinds but we were a band) in the mid to late 70's, there were still about fifty marching units, not to mention those who competed in Eastern Mass and Mayflower. These groups filled busses with attendees. Add to that parishes sold tickets. Proceeds from CYO Nationals helped fund a variety of youth activities so it was to their advantage to sell, sell, sell. There were 425 parishes in the Archdiocese at that time. First National Bank of Boston, prior to its name change for public relations issues involving the Angiullo family, used to purchase a huge block of tickets for employees. Today the corps that filled most of the seats are gone, parishes wouldn't be able to sell as many tickets, and corporate support would probably not happen.

Sadly, as you know as well as I do, our heads have been in the sand for over thirty years.

[Geneva]

This is a matter of personal preference, as there is no right or wrong answer of course, but the sound of a brass instrument ( soprano voice especially )keyed in the key of " G " is much deeper, richer, more sonorous than the brass instrument ( soprano ) keyed in the B flat key as this sound to my ears is more thin, and tinier, and thus to my ears less pleasant. I do understand the better functionality and compatibiity of the " Bflat " compared with the " G " with other musical ensembles and units, but the " G " for me has a more enjoyable sound by comparison, and it appears its far richer and deeper quality sound allows the sound's volume to carry at greater distance and if played in tone and in proper pitch, also is stronger in volume for the listener. Thats my personal assssment and personal preference however, and I do recognize that other sounds enter the ear passages of others differently, this making their personal assessment and preference perhaps at odds with mine ( and others )

We are on the same wavelength here. In an outdoor activity (at least when the domed stadiums are not being used) I think the timbre of the G soprano is better suited to deliver the sound impact which has defined drum corps over the years. Sure, the trumpets can be played loud (e.g. BD, Crown, Cadets), but the breadth of sound is different. Indoors where you have the augmentation of the sound by the acoustical properties of the room this is probably less obvious and the superior pitch slotting of the trumpets wins out over the soprano. I have played them both for many years and there is no question that the trumpet is superior when it comes to the facility with pitch, but the well played G bugle (e.g. Hawthorne Cabs alumni) is a unique and exciting sound outdoors.

I know that market pressures will prevent widespread use of G bugles from ever returning and I will miss that in competitive drum corps.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Geneva

[alumniof]

Translation: everything in DCI should cater to what I remember from 30 years ago.

Keep your day job. Translating is a responsible career. 2002 and 2004 was 30 years ago?