When will Eastern corps travel (Mid)West?

[JohnZ]

Maybe there will be a corps who does surprise everyone and can pull it off for the heck of it, because they just feel like it. <br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: tahoma, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(253, 254, 255);">

unfortunately we just lost the one corps most likely to do just that - and they left the activity heads held high on their own terms.

just an observation.

[Kansan]

Then make it worthwhile and compelling to do so, as I said and has Jeff.

Reading between the lines of posts like these- "Walk a mile in our moccasins, bro, we dare yah" ain't gonna justify it or make a particularly compelling reason. Even the brats are more compelling reason, and even those aren't enough. If a "Cartel" corps wanted and they covered the money for them and gave me a grill, I have access to the two local German stores run by real Germans and I make a pretty mean Bockwurst/Weisswurst/Knackwurst cookout with the right mustards and Curry Ketchup to boot.

Bush got back from nearly taking a dive, Empire's gone, and folks just think everyone's ready to invest in the road trip because well, they "just should". No one out here wants to be the ones that blow up their corps and be the next to go under or have their corps bailed out.

"Oh, we don't want to break anyone's bank or cause anyone to put off investing in corps assets or infrastructure... but c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, plan for 2015, do it NOW..."

I keep saying after all of the debacles and attempts to do this over the last 30+ years, corps have been smacked down enough to be really leery, downright skeptical and afraid. The track record is dismal. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. And I sense some folks who are blithely ignoring history here and revel in doing so.

"Oh, that won't happen, you negative Nellie! Such a downer you are! It'll be GREAT this time! Load the buses and pull out! Go west!"

Yeah, and Lucy won't pull the football away, either. Tom Peashey has said the task would be "daunting". In this economy, absolutely. Risk-taking for a corps is inviting trouble.

Maybe there will be a corps who does surprise everyone and can pull it off for the heck of it, because they just feel like it. I just wouldn't be expecting or demanding it.

If I were on a BoD of one of the "cartel" and the proposal came up, one of the big question I would ask would likely be, "In what ways will this enhance and enrich the overall experience of our corps members? Or, will this be mainly seeing the Midwest though the windows of a bus and a stadium on the other end?"

Another question: "Do we need to do this to get a read for the corps? Can we compensate for the fact that weekend's going to have less rehearsal time in it? How will the staff react to that issue, as well as the membership?"

Maybe there are good answers. But plowing ahead on this from the heart and not the head like many individuals are doing in spades in this thread is a recipe for a major fiasco. For me to say that is even scarier, since I'm intuitive as all get-out.

Unfortunately, dealing with this thread's put off my trying to finish my prelims review again. I need sleep.

I guess the Eastern Corps can take some notes from MBI, Kilties, Corps Vets, High Country Brass the Sun Devils, Renegades, Dream and others on how to travel and survive.

[cixelsyd]

I still think it's completely ridiculous that folks want to create rules designed to remove the perceived advantages C2 may or may not have by being a part of a larger organization. DCA doesn't have the power (nor should it) to place any restriction on what YEA, band circuits, or non-DCA show hosts.

I said nothing about making rules. All I said is that in the context of a cooperative drum corps circuit, no corps should be using their ties with a band circuit to exclude other corps from engaging in free-market recruiting practices. Even the appearance of such impropriety ought to be avoided for the sake of preserving the kind of cooperative, sportsmanlike atmosphere this activity needs to have as one of its primary selling points.

Back in the stone age, we had release rules because corps could not be trusted to refrain from raiding each other. We would still have such rules if not for modern day corps directors evolving to abide by some basic code of ethics.

If you don't like that, find a way for your corps to gain an advantage that Cadets2 doesn't have. It's really not hard to figure out.

I am not affiliated with a particular corps, so I look at things with the perspective of wanting all corps to succeed, not just one. With that in mind, I have no objection to Cadets reaping the justifiable advantage that comes with running these band shows - receiving the going rate of pay from any other corps that sets up a booth at their shows.

[BigW]

I guess the Eastern Corps can take some notes from MBI, Kilties, Corps Vets, High Country Brass the Sun Devils, Renegades, Dream and others on how to travel and survive.

They could, or not. Why? Give me more of a reason than "Why not?" Why?

No one has really made any convincing case for why. No one. Just a drone to do it. From people who would readily jump on the bandwagon when they say the touring model and travel killed so many corps, including the Kilts.

Speaking of which... the comment I made about Kilties and Govies coming East during the regular season got conveniently ignored. I said then that I suppose they are being careful with their money. I guess that also doesn't apply to the NE units, huh!?

Why travel for a read when you don't have to? To be blunt, it's a waste of rehearsal time, something everyone says there's never enough of anymore- and also money.

Again, what reason is there for the mountain to move to Mohammed besides "It would be nice to see a major NE corps out here." Yes, it would in a perfect world. It's not perfect. Money gets in the way, and it's not as easy to come by as some people seem to think. It comes with its own price....

Let's continue- doing this would indicate getting another income source. A major one if a corps is going to also do what it already does and stay solvent. I learned this from my Dad BITD when he ran the local Band Parent's organization: You have to be fair to the constituents you raise money from and not beat them to death with fund raisers, or they'll come to resent it and stop giving. You also need to make sure your fund raising is quality and does well for the people and time investment involved in the project.

You also need to convince your constituents the project is important and essential. In this economy, convincing folks to donate for what would be interpreted as some kind of glorified band trip is tough, especially when it wouldn't be for the actual championship. To convince them you need new uniforms, a new truck, to build up the meal kitchen, or to create a fund to help needy members with their tuition is FAR more easier to do. The Bucs know this and I'm a soft touch for those kinds of things with them. Those things are important, not a trip to the Midwest as far as I'm personally concerned. My guess is many NE corps have reached a saturation point with that. Unless, you can find a Big Daddy Warbucks to toss some cash your way.

Edited September 18, 2013 by BigW

[BigW]

unfortunately we just lost the one corps most likely to do just that - and they left the activity heads held high on their own terms.

just an observation.

And finances were one of the reasons they folded.

[MikeD]

I said nothing about making rules. All I said is that in the context of a cooperative drum corps circuit, no corps should be using their ties with a band circuit to exclude other corps from engaging in free-market recruiting practices. Even the appearance of such impropriety ought to be avoided for the sake of preserving the kind of cooperative, sportsmanlike atmosphere this activity needs to have as one of its primary selling points.

YEA! has USBands, Cadets, Cadets2, and some smaller Allentown-local groups as program offerings. They have tables at some of their main USBand events highlighting their major ensembles that band kids might want to join, Cadets and Cadets2. I see nothing wrong with that.

Do you also think that, say, Carolina Crown, SCV, Regiment, et al... should be allowed to have a table at a USBands event if they so choose? You think any DCI corps located anyplace should be able to set up a recruiting shop? It is exactly analogous to what you are asking for YEA! to do with DCA corps. After all, DCI corps draw from all over the country, so they might each want to set up a table at USBands Nationals, for instance.

Back in the stone age, we had release rules because corps could not be trusted to refrain from raiding each other. We would still have such rules if not for modern day corps directors evolving to abide by some basic code of ethics.

I never got a 'release' in moving from one corps to another in the off season. I moved twice, from a parade corps to a GSC corps after the 67 summer and then from the GSC corps to Garfield after the 69 season. I can't think of anyone who did that in my direct experience, but of course that is just one small anecdotal experience. Maybe some corps or geographic areas were more stringent about them.

[N.E. Brigand]

I said nothing about making rules. All I said is that in the context of a cooperative drum corps circuit, no corps should be using their ties with a band circuit to exclude other corps from engaging in free-market recruiting practices. Even the appearance of such impropriety ought to be avoided for the sake of preserving the kind of cooperative, sportsmanlike atmosphere this activity needs to have as one of its primary selling points.

YEA! has USBands, Cadets, Cadets2, and some smaller Allentown-local groups as program offerings. They have tables at some of their main USBand events highlighting their major ensembles that band kids might want to join, Cadets and Cadets2. I see nothing wrong with that.

Do you also think that, say, Carolina Crown, SCV, Regiment, et al... should be allowed to have a table at a USBands event if they so choose? You think any DCI corps located anyplace should be able to set up a recruiting shop? It is exactly analogous to what you are asking for YEA! to do with DCA corps. After all, DCI corps draw from all over the country, so they might each want to set up a table at USBands Nationals, for instance.

I would say yes, and like I said before (and cixelsyd seconded), I would add that YEA! ought to feel free to charge other corps the going rate to have a recruiting booth at these band shows. Last year I started a thread in the DCI forums about how I thought DCI was missing the boat by not having any presence, neither a table nor a banner nor a program ad, at the Ohio marching band finals. In that case, I would fully expect DCI to pay whatever fee was charged to other groups (like Bands of America) for ads or booths or banner placement. The same idea applies here. I want all corps to have the opportunity to make a pitch to all appropriate marching band circuits, but I don't expect anyone to give away free advertising opportunities.

[BigW]

I have the answer to Ream's and my own question. What would it take to get the Mountain to go to Mohammed? Of all things, thinking of Pepe gave it to me. The world works in mysterious ways. It'll have to wait, I need to get to work.

[cixelsyd]

Do you also think that, say, Carolina Crown, SCV, Regiment, et al... should be allowed to have a table at a USBands event if they so choose? You think any DCI corps located anyplace should be able to set up a recruiting shop?

Why not? Any corps that has the resources to set up a booth at a given show, and pay the going rate other vendors pay for booth space, ought to have that opportunity (space permitting).

I never got a 'release' in moving from one corps to another in the off season. I moved twice, from a parade corps to a GSC corps after the 67 summer and then from the GSC corps to Garfield after the 69 season.

That exposes one of the limitations of release rules - a rule made by a circuit only applies to the corps in that circuit. Nothing stopping you from making the moves you described.

[MikeD]

I would say yes, and like I said before (and cixelsyd seconded), I would add that YEA! ought to feel free to charge other corps the going rate to have a recruiting booth at these band shows. Last year I started a thread in the DCI forums about how I thought DCI was missing the boat by not having any presence, neither a table nor a banner nor a program ad, at the Ohio marching band finals. In that case, I would fully expect DCI to pay whatever fee was charged to other groups (like Bands of America) for ads or booths or banner placement. The same idea applies here. I want all corps to have the opportunity to make a pitch to all appropriate marching band circuits, but I don't expect anyone to give away free advertising opportunities.

Good...at least you are consistent!

I disagree that any organization should HAVE to allow something, but yes, I think it would be NICE if they allowed it. Their call to make, IMO, and I don't hold it against the organization if they don't permit it. Certain things just don't rise up to that level for each of us, and this is one of those for me. If I saw Cabs and Blue Knights tables at USBands Nats, I'd probably have a passing "gee, that's pretty cool" thought, but if I don't see them, I'm not going to hold it against YEA! for not permtting outside groups in. Actually, without this thread, I've never thought about it either way.