fsubone Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I'd like to hear some examples of "simultaneous demand". I know what it means, or is supposed to mean, but I'd like to hear some examples. Moving and playing at the same time. Pretty much the last minute of any Cadets show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Moving and playing at the same time. Pretty much the last minute of any Cadets show. If it were this simple we'd not see ballet in the drum line, right? They moved and played in '72, too, but many here say that kind of "simultaneous demand" wouldn't score well today. Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Moving and playing at the same time. Pretty much the last minute of any Cadets show. And (I'm nit-picking here) if, by your own description, "...the last minute of any Cadets show", do they fulfill the demand only in the last minute? Could they? Would a judge be "simultaneous demand-hungry" for 9 minutes, then get what he wanted in the last minute and score them well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 And (I'm nit-picking here) if, by your own description, "...the last minute of any Cadets show", do they fulfill the demand only in the last minute? Could they? Would a judge be "simultaneous demand-hungry" for 9 minutes, then get what he wanted in the last minute and score them well? No, they fulfill it constantly. But the last minute of their shows are usually a balls-to-the-wall drill and music-fest. Adding the body movement though adds a layer of simultaneous demand onto what would normally be a bare halt. Halts are supposed to always sound great because you're not moving. So adding in some sort of choreography shows the judges that you can play well constantly, not just give 100% of the sound during the moments you're halted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 No, they fulfill it constantly. But the last minute of their shows are usually a balls-to-the-wall drill and music-fest. Adding the body movement though adds a layer of simultaneous demand onto what would normally be a bare halt. Halts are supposed to always sound great because you're not moving. So adding in some sort of choreography shows the judges that you can play well constantly, not just give 100% of the sound during the moments you're halted. So, by moving throughout the show, they are fulfilling simultaneous demand. Got it. So what's different between marching 8 to 5 and doing percussion ballet? (These are serious questions and, yes, I'm leading...) What if a corps tenor line played 16th note trips with the left hand and held a cup of tea without spilling it in the right hand. Would that satisfy "simultaneous demand" requirements? What about diddles with the right and picking the nose with the left hand? Does that score well, too? A contra playing, moving, and picking his butt at the same time? Box 5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) If it were this simple we'd not see ballet in the drum line, right? They moved and played in '72, too, but many here say that kind of "simultaneous demand" wouldn't score well today. Why not? The Cadets winning Title show in 2011 is another good example of the importance of the Visual Design to a Corps placement. In June of 2011 the Cadets finished 4th in an early show. I saw the show in the Cinema. They were coming off a 5th place finish in 2010. Despite finiishing 4th in this show, 4-5 points back or so from the 3 in front of them, I turned to the friend sitting next to me in the Cinema and said " This show is going to win it for the Cadets, or at least get them into 2nd place this year if they simply clean this puppy up ". The reason I thought so was because it had a highly creative visual that perfectly fit the dualism theme of good and bad, ie Angels and Demons. In essence, the show designers had given the marchers the goods visually to make it happen for them come Finals. I've seen other Corps with good Brass and Percussion sections where it evident.. even in June.. that the adult show designers had not given the marchers a Visual Design sufficient enough to win it all.. no matter how clean and well played the Percussion and Brass might be come Finals Night... nor even how well they might march the drill given to them come August. Edited February 24, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 The Cadets winning Title show in 2011 is another good example of the importance of the Visual Design to a Corps placement. In June of 2011 the Cadets finished 4th in an early show. I saw the show in the Cinema. They were coming off a 5th place finish in 2010. Despite finiishing 4th in this show, 4-5 points back or so from the 3 in front of them, I turned to the friend sitting next to me in the Cinema and said " This show is going to win it for the Cadets, or at least get them into 2nd place this year if they simply clean this puppy up ". The reason I thought so was because it had a highly creative visual that perfectly fit the dualism theme of good and bad, ie Angels and Demons. In essence, the show designers had given the marchers the goods visually to make it happen for them come Finals. I've seen other Corps with good Brass and Percussion sections where it evident.. even in June.. that the adult show designers had not given the marchers a Visual Design sufficient enough to win it all.. no matter how clean and well played the Percussion and Brass might be come Finals Night... nor even how well they might march the drill given to them come August. For the record, I was one of many who, in June, said "George, don't change a thing. Just clean." Good example of my point, Brasso. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) The Cadets winning Title show in 2011 is another good example of the importance of the Visual Design to a Corps placement. In June of 2011 the Cadets finished 4th in an early show. I saw the show in the Cinema. They were coming off a 5th place finish in 2010. Despite finiishing 4th in this show, 4-5 points back or so from the 3 in front of them, I turned to the friend sitting next to me in the Cinema and said " This show is going to win it for the Cadets, or at least get them into 2nd place this year if they simply clean this puppy up ". The reason I thought so was because it had a highly creative visual that perfectly fit the dualism theme of good and bad, ie Angels and Demons. In essence, the show designers had given the marchers the goods visually to make it happen for them come Finals. I've seen other Corps with good Brass and Percussion sections where it evident.. even in June.. that the adult show designers had not given the marchers a Visual Design sufficient enough to win it all.. no matter how clean and well played the Percussion and Brass might be come Finals Night... nor even how well they might march the drill given to them come August. It certainly helped that they also WON music ensemble and GE music at finals, though. (In spite of winning visual performance, they did lose the overall visual caption on finals night to the Blue Devils, for the record, as well as color guard) Edited February 25, 2014 by seen-it-all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The dots that I'm creating for people on the weighted system of the Visual and the Guard can likewise be found by sticking with The Cavaliers corps for a moment for futher illustration... The Cavs trump card was their Visual and Guard a decade or so ago . When they lost their VISUAL designer after the 2011 season they took a one year nose dive. It wasn't so much the loss of Brass, Percusion staff and marchers. It is my belief that had they retained Gaines, ( Visual ) but lost a brass arranger or percussion caption head or whatever, they would not have fallen so far, so quickly on the judging sheets. They were an experienced Corps.. filled with Vets in 2012. They didn''t forget how to march and play. Nobody here believes that the Cavs that finished 8th in 2012 were less talented, or worked less harder than the 2011 Cavs Corps that finished 3rd.. or the 2010 Cavs Corps that finished 2nd ? Or do they ? If we believe that the marchers were just as talented, worked just has hard in 2012 as in 2011, 2010, then we ask oursleves.. " what changed ? " If our answer to that question is " the Visual Show Designer" as the biggest loss, then we have even FURTHER illustration of just how important the Visual is on the current DCI Judging sheets. You missed the first part. Try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 ...Can a show that's designed strictly for the fans ... Are we assuming that "the fans" constitute a uniform body with regard to their taste in programming, i.e. does the audience as a unified entity "long for the days of blow-your-hair-back 'in your face' drum corps?" Does writing a show "strictly for the fans" by definition preclude the use of avante garde, cutting edge, and all the new toys? Correct me if I'm missing your point - but if that's where you're coming from, I'm not sure those across the board assumptions are necessarily valid. Peace, Fred O. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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