Cadets 2016

[GUARDLING]

You've been saying and demonstrating this for years and I just am not able to comprehend your viewpoint. While I enjoy almost every corps almost every year and, from that viewpoint, placement is not part of my enjoyment, I still care about placement and, frankly, I can't tell you why. I'm not at all a competitive person in this realm, but the slotting if fun to see even as I think DCI mis-markets the activity as a competition instead of pure entertainment.

Isn't that odd?

I think what it comes down to ,Unless you have a horse in the race most people don't care about placements. That's not to say competition doesn't play a part in the excitement, frustration, discussion, and passion. Competition does not effect the average person one way or another and luckily there is more to it than just one aspect. It's like going to watch an Olympic event , do most care who wins? Probably not. Take the competition aspect out, would many still care to watch? Well, before a debate on that I'll just leave that up to everyone else..lol

Back to the Cadets, who have done both over the years, entertained as well as compete at a high level, Oh and of course been a great source for gossip for many..

Edited May 21, 2016 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

I think what it comes down to . Unless you have a horse in the race most people don't care about placements..

Nonsense. Of course they do. Some people care about placements perhaps WAY more than they should too, as a matter of fact.. But most DO care about the placements. Otherwise we would not see so much angst when Corps don't get the scores from the judges they want. Heck, even most of the potential MM's in the offseason actually SELECT Corps to try out for based upon the previous years placements of some of these Corps. if someone is attempting to convince themselves " most people don't care about placements " I would suggest they go to Youtube as an instructional primer and type in the 2008 or the 2013 retreat announcement of the scores. After doing so, they should be able to disabuse themselves of this nonsense that " most people don't care about placements ". Also, the most long standing DCP thread on here each and every summer are the placement prediction threads. And finally, even Rondo, and Dennis emphasis the scores and the placements on the airway, and even discuss the caption breadowns for fans. And Michael Boo on the DCI website gives a detailed caption breakdown at each of the regionals, and at finals. Placements also determine slotting positions at Regionals too. Holy Mackeral, even these Corps staff get hired and fired based upon these placements. So anyone stating that " most people do not care about the placements " is saying something that really doesn't seem to be based on much reality of what is actually happening with fans, alums, announcers, writers, and most importantly, even the corps themselves.

Edited May 21, 2016 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

Nonsense. Of course they do. Some people care about placements perhaps WAY more than they should too. But most DO care about the placements. Otherwise we would not see so much angst when Corps don't get the scores from the judges they want. Heck, even most of the potential MM's in the offseason actually SELECT Corps to try out for based upon the previous years placements of some of these Corps. if someone is attempting to convince themselves " most people don't care about placements " I would suggest they go to Youtube as an instructional primer and type in the 2008 retreat announcement of the scores. After doing so, they should be able to disabuse themselves of this nonsense that " most people don't care about placements ". Also, the most repetitive DCP thread on here each and every summer are the placement prediction threads. And finally, even Rondo, and Dennis emphasis the scores and the placements on the airway, and even discuss the caption breadowns for fans. And Michael Boo on the DCI website gives a detailed caption breakdown at each of the regionals, and at finals. Placements also determine slotting positions at Regionals too. Staff get hired and fired based upon these placements. So anyone stating that " most people do not care about the placements " is saying something that really doesn't seem to be based on what is actually happening with fans, alums, announcers, writers, and most importantly, even the corps themselves.

I knew it would spawn more discussion than needed.. Ok then why do many many here and other places always say they could care less who wins. It's an opinion... Most people one way or another are not affected by scores. They may like to follow it, debate it etc etc

Brasso PLEASE don't go back to your old ways of using words like nonsense when describing another's opinion. If you really want to go there remember there are 2 sides to THAT coin.

Competition is important to our activity , I didnt say it wasn't. Also Im am very aware how staff get hired today.

I was also answering Garfield who was questioning , competition verses entertainment BUT of course you took one line of an entire post and spun it..lol

PS: if you really put together the whole post you can see I wrote how important competition is by saying would many come to see it if it wasnt a competition...

Edited May 21, 2016 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

I knew it would spawn more discussion than needed.. Ok then why do many many here and other places always say they could care less who wins.

I don't know. They probably have a variety of reasons to say this, some perhaps more compelling and valid than others. You would have to ask them this question when you meet with them personally or encounter their comments to this effect on here to learn why the believe this way.. But my reply remarks made was to your comment that " most people do not care about the placements ", and so my remarks were wholly in response to that comment.

Edited May 21, 2016 by BRASSO

[garfield]

Maybe it comes down to whether the scores and placements match our own observations of shows that entertain or dazzle us. This, I think, is what describes Cadets shows best for me personally. I'm usually first dazzled in a WTH? kind of way, then more entertained, frankly, the longer I watch and re-watch a show. Cadets last year is a great example.

2011 Cadets left me both dazzled and entertained at once, and greater than any other show that year so I was one of those many up screaming after the score announcement. It didn't matter who they beat. It was the show that captured me most that year so I felt vindicated that they one. Not necessarily that they beat BD, Crown, or anyone else.

Going back to my first shows in the early '70's, Cadets have given me that combination of dazzle/entertainment/vindication of my viewpoint more than any other corps.

Edited May 21, 2016 by garfield

[BRASSO]

.

Competition is important to our activity , I didnt say it wasn't. ..

My remarks did not state that you did not believe that competition was not important to the activity either. Anyone... anyone... that reads my comments above will not come away with the conclusion that I said this about your remarks either, Guardling. So if you are requesting that I do not " spin your words " a beginning point in that process might be for you not to engage in a spin of words of mine, that did not imply in the least that you said or believed that competition is not important to the activity. My reply was not about the importance or the non importance of competition to the activity. My reply was to your comment that " most people do not care about the placements.". I gave you ample evidence to the contrary. It would be up to you to retain your position on this, or change your opinion based upon what I or others might say in attempts to persusade you that all the makings are there to demonstrate that placements do matter to most people, and perhaps with some people, they care about the scores and placements perhaps even MORE than they should. As for my assessment that this comment of yours that " most people don't care about the placements " was a bit of " nonsense " perhaps in retrospect that was a harsher term for me to have used. I perhaps should have said " I believe you are wrong, and heres why.... " Although its the same thing, I perhaps should have not said " nonsense " to you ( even though thats my frank assessment of the comment. )

Edited May 21, 2016 by BRASSO

[rr4353]

There is a PM option... for a reason...

...

pretty please??

[BRASSO]

Maybe it comes down to whether the scores and placements match our own observations of shows that entertain or dazzle us.

I don't presume to speak for anyone else, but my enjoyment level of a Corps shows is never predicated on what the judges might think. To that extent, I've enjoyed lower placing Corps shows most seasons more than the upper echelon Corps... but also vice versa too. Again, for me personally, the score and placement to this was not germane to the my personal enjoyment levels of the Corps show. But if its a score and placement question or discussion, then the parameters naturally change for that, as rarely if ever do judges factor in how the audiences are responding to the shows. So when we discuss scores and placements, we naturally rule out the entertainment factor in such a discussion, just as the judges do when they assign their scores and their placements for all these Corps. Thus, we discuss these scores and placements on THAT basis.... as the entertainment factor quotient levels becomes unconnected as any factor at all to THAT discussion, it would seem to me.

Edited May 21, 2016 by BRASSO

[xandandl]

Yea, well I guess I'm just a hopeless optimist that they can renew the 2011 magic!

Visually and Visually GE speaking, many of the folks who gave the supplementary suggestions which nuanced the show to be so popular with so many as the show developed into that final performance at LOS were actually marching members who played with an idea during sectionals or personal times, brought the idea to Jeff and GH, and then allowed the idea to develop on the field. Many of these same folks are now teaching Bloo, Boston, etc., corps which have tried something different in recent seasons. The MMs of 2011 had great MM leadership (Ben Pouncey, Patrick Crowley, Thomas Baker, Nick O'Hara) who gave gone on to do special things with the other units they have influenced since.

If GH allows that same latitude, and Darryl and Jarrett can be convinced, then that magic may re-appear.

Edited May 21, 2016 by xandandl

[Tobias]

Well they did bring in a new drill guy, new visual folks, a new guard caption head and designer... so maybe the visual side of things will be different?

George is correct. They evaluated their weaknesses last year and the team is committed to designing with an eye on the sheets. There will be much more staging, integration of guard, characterization etc. Mix that with some powerful traditional Cadets in front/back of show and I think

They will be hot. The brass n percussion are killer and the visual will be fresh,