BRASSO Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) . . We saw the 1988 "secret semifinals scores" fail because it was no secret. News that Madison won semis was being talked about throughout the audience before finals began. haha!.... yes. That rumor turned out to be true. When real, verifiable data, previously available to the public, is withdrawn, we can expect rumors to fill that void immediately. Are rumors a better thing to have than instantly verifiable data ? I know, its a silly question, with an obvious answer. in 1975, the Hawthorne ( NJ ) Muchachos were disqualified after their Semi's performance at Championdhips for marching an overage marcher. Because they were disqualified, their Semi's performance score was not released to the public. When that happened, rumors circulated among the crowd that the Muchachos ( a definate contender for the title that year ) topped the Madison Scouts in the Semi's, a Madison Corps that the following nite would go on to win the '75 Championship. The rumor was both debunked as well as confirmed, depending upon who you listened too. I personally believe that the Madison Scouts also won the Semi's, fair and square. But do we know this for certain ? No. We'll never really know, as the scores for the Hawthorne Muchachos were thrown out right away, and became unavailable to the public,and to the Corps themselves. Edited June 10, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 That's true of any adjudicator in any activity. Were they not doing that before? This is just my opinion. But when the activity needed to add hundredths of points to help evaluators figure out their placement, the groupings didn't seem as randomly judged, they seemed almost more slotted than before with smaller margins to make it look different. While I think this puts more stress on the evaluators, it could give the activity some much needed breathing room and the ability to have actual movement up and down the food chain if its actually enforced and clean slates are given to each corps each night. I do concur that the pool of people hired to judge needs some more variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Whatever the implications for the members, for fans, and for DCI, there will be an interesting psychology PhD thesis examining judging behavior as drawn from an analysis of [2016 recaps] vs. [pre-2016 recaps]. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahsigs Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I'd like to hear a disadvantage that's not "DCI gets less website hits" or "There will be less to discuss on DCP." If straight-up deleting DCP created a more fair and honest environment for the actual kids marching to be judged, then yeah, that has priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) What is it about, then? Go ahead and finish your thought. As far as whether it will make a difference - like most rules, enforcement is the key. We saw the 1988 "secret semifinals scores" fail because it was no secret. News that Madison won semis was being talked about throughout the audience before finals began. I think Wes touched on it. It's all about the bright light of the entire "marching arts" world being focused on their numbers at every single event. And that light is bright indeed. Various websites now can filter and analyze results by judge and by caption. And that analysis is (was) going to race far ahead of what DCI does internally. Because once it's data, it's data. The judges probably don't enjoy it very much. DCI probably doesn't enjoy it very much either. BTW to that I say -- too bad. If you can't stand by your number (and by your occasional mistakes) you have no business judging (at any level). Comes with the territory. I don't expect the "theoretical" blackout to last long. I think BOA tried a season where numbers weren't announced -- just placements. IMO DCI just needs to embrace the sunshine and try to catch up. Analytics aren't going away and recaps aren't going to remain secret -- at all. Edited June 10, 2016 by corpsband 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 haha!.... yes. That rumor turned out to be true. When real, verifiable data, previously available to the public, is withdrawn, we can expect rumors to fill that void immediately. Are rumors a better thing to have than instantly verifiable data ? I know, its a silly question, with an obvious answer. in 1975, the Hawthorne ( NJ ) Muchachos were disqualified after their Semi's performance at Championdhips for marching an overage marcher. Because they were disqualified, their Semi's performance score was not released to the public. When that happened, rumors circulated among the crowd that the Muchachos ( a definate contender for the title that year ) topped the Madison Scouts in the Semi's, a Madison Corps that the following nite would go on to win the '75 Championship. The rumor was both debunked as well as confirmed, depending upon who you listened too. I personally believe that the Madison Scouts also won the Semi's, fair and square. But do we know this for certain ? No. We'll never really know, as the scores for the Hawthorne Muchachos were thrown out right away, and became unavailable to the public,and to the Corps themselves. And in 1977 the Bridgemen's score was released but not counted as they were disqualified for the same violation. Of course many thought Bayonne was #2 that year despite the #4 score but that's another thread 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I'd like to hear a disadvantage that's not "DCI gets less website hits" or "There will be less to discuss on DCP." If straight-up deleting DCP created a more fair and honest environment for the actual kids marching to be judged, then yeah, that has priority. But again I ask: How will you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 It will be nice to not see the "oh God judge xxxxxx is judging my favorite corps tonight they are SCREWED" comments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 It will be nice to not see the "oh God judge xxxxxx is judging my favorite corps tonight they are SCREWED" comments. shocked faces will be much better at shows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Oh come on! Somebody answer my question!: If the point of hiding caption scores is to somehow improve the judging process - in ANY way - how will anyone know that it's been successful or not? Personally, I think this is an effort to put those score collection/tabulation/analysis websites out of business because DCI is losing eyeballs to them because DCI is too cheap to spend the money to have a decent site for fans. If DCI is the only game in town with score sheets they control the market, period. And I'm not wearing tin foil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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