What would it take?

[N.E. Brigand]

I also disagree with the premise of the OP that there were more shows in the past few years worthy of ‘finals’ status.

So do I. Strongly.

[N.E. Brigand]

OK, first, I am not one of those "everyone deserves a trophy or medal for participating" kind of people. I believe that life is about working hard and earning what you get and accepting it when you don't. That said, at what point would the idea float that DCI Finals should expand?

Before lashing out, consider this: in the past five years, could you think of at least two corps that you easily could've seen as Finalists and others below that were very good? If Prelims includes all Open Class, and we've seen the surge there too, why not expand maybe two spots?

This year especially, it's going to be painful to see someone really good be left out on Saturday. To my first statement, that's part of learning to be a winner, accepting when it's not your turn. But, at what point does the parity become too much to ignore? Academy, Troop, Boston are all great drum corps, but only one gets in when it's said and done.

Some people over the past few years (and I see, also in this thread), have argued that Finals should contract rather than expand.

Possibly for no good reason, I've always felt that something called "Finals" should include no more than half of the participating corps. Given that there are 22 World Class corps, that would imply there should be 11 or fewer in Finals. But what I'd prefer is for DCI to grow, so that at least two more corps are World Class. (I also want there to be at least twice as many Open Class corps as World Class corps. Dream big!)

On the other hand, since 2011, DCI has allowed the Open Class corps to participate in World Class championships. This year, 16 corps are doing so. So arguably Finals could justifiably include as many as 19 corps (i.e., half of 38). On the other, other hand, since World Class corps don't get to participate in O.C. Finals, maybe the O.C. corps shouldn't be counted in the total. And it may as well be noted that DCA for at least the past fifteen years has had 10 Open Class (=World Class) and 4 Class A (=Open Class) corps in its Finals, even though the total number of corps in both classes combined has been 20 or fewer on multiple occasions.

Another way to figure this would be that only corps that achieve a certain level of quality should be allowed into Finals. What if the cut-off was 90 points in Semifinals? Then only 6-9 corps would be in Finals. What if it was 85 points in Semifinals? That would be 10-13 corps. If it was 80 points, there would be 15-19 corps in Finals. But that probably gives too much weight to the numerical scores when the judges' first concern is ranking, not rating.

You ought to ask yourself whether the idea that corps keep getting better and better is an illusion. There were probably people at many earlier points in DCI's history saying the same thing: are twelve corps really enough? If you think someone was wrong to feel that way in, say, 1989 (the year I first saw a drum corps show; there were 59 corps at the multi-level championships that year, and DCI sold CDs for the top 25 that year (as in 2015), so they figured enough people would buy them to justify that expense), you ought to ask yourself whether someone in 2040 will look back and think you're silly for saying it now.

Admittedly the number 12 for Finals is often said to have been chosen for an arbitrary reason. But it's a very longstanding tradition.

[ShortAndFast]

Another way to figure this would be that only corps that achieve a certain level of quality should be allowed into Finals. What if the cut-off was 90 points in Semifinals? Then only 6-9 corps would be in Finals. What if it was 85 points in Semifinals? That would be 10-13 corps. If it was 80 points, there would be 15-19 corps in Finals. But that probably gives too much weight to the numerical scores when the judges' first concern is ranking, not rating.

I think it's an interesting idea to promote a certain level of excellence as "finals-worthy" rather than a specific number of corps. In other discussions this summer, people have talked about how many music competitions outside of DCI use gold/silver/bronze as levels of excellence - multiple groups can receive a gold medal if they perform at the required level. In DCI "Friday night" and "Saturday night" informally indicate levels of excellence, but it'd be interesting to try it by the numbers.

[geluf]

When finals week re-expanded to include the open class groups that score high enough to place, and thus Semis was expanded from 17 to 25 (an increase of 8), I felt that finals should have expanded from 12 to 15 (an increase of 3). Still do.

[drumcorpsfever]

6

INT

6

Enough.

[MikeN]

I'd rather see three all-day shows with minimal cut offs. From the corps' perspective, it makes more financial sense to be able to perform in three shows at the end of the week instead of one.

Mike

[DrumScorps]

Maybe a rule could be adopted similar to how golf tournaments determine who gets to play in the final 2 rounds of the tournament. DCI equivalent would be "Top 12 and all those within X number of points of the leader".

Edited July 13, 2016 by DrumScorps

[jwillis35]

I don't so much have a problem with the top 12 being in finals, but the problem I have is with finals being on Saturday (although not opposed to some expansion). Many fans are dealing with band camps during the week and cannot get to prelims or semi's. Finals is their only option, so they can't see everyone or most everyone. Have they ever had a Friday through Sunday set up?

I've wondered this too. Much like a golf major, what if DCI Finals consisted of 4 days of competition -- Thursday - Sunday.

• Thursday = Quarterfinals: Sound Sport + all corps currently ranked 13 - 30+ (including open class)
• Friday = Semi Finals: Currently ranked top 12 + top 7 finishes from Quarters
• Saturday = Finals: Top 12 finishes from Semi Finals
• Sunday = Medal Round: Any corps that scores a 95.00 or higher makes the medal round on Sunday to see who takes Gold, Silver, and Bronze. The Sunday show begins at 1:00 pm and likely only involves on average 5 to 6 corps.

Kind of crazy, and probably would make for a long weekend. Plus most corps use Sunday for their banquets in Indianapolis since parents and alumni often come in to town, and there's a ton of halls to use in Indy for this sort of thing.

[BRASSO]

Oh ya! I forgot football teams use the drum corps field during the off season.

In the northeast, the snowmobilers get the football fields way longer than the DCI'ers or the footballers do ( haha!)

Edited July 13, 2016 by BRASSO

[Stu]

This year esp it's going to be painful to see someone really good be left out on Saturday. To my first statement, that's part of learning to be a winner, accepting when it's not your turn. But, at what point does the parity become too much to ignore?

Every year, not just this year, is a hard pill to swallow for members and staff of (the really good corps) which placed 13th . However, that 'pain' would not change for any corps which misses the Finals cut-off whether it is #13 of the top 12, #16 of the top 15, or #6 of the top 5. So, on that point it does not matter how many corps perform during Finals, the cut-off corps will feel the pain.

As for 'Parity'; if we look at this as a 'medal contention' parity issue, in which Finals at any Championship is really what Finals is all about, here is an interesting evaluation: In the 43 seasons of DCI, the top three have remained the top three from Semis to Finals in 37 seasons (including every season since 1992); previous to 1992 the top 4 changed around in 4 of those seasons, and the top 5 changed around in 2 of those seasons. So, since Finals at any competition is supposed to be for those who have a shot at attaining a medal, the historical 'parity' within DCI indicates that DCI Finals should have no more than the top 3 to 5 corps moving from Semis to Finals. Otherwise the number of corps appearing on Saturday, which is currently 12, is an arbitrary number of corps which really have no parity.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Stu