Where is DCI?

[MikeD]

Ultimately, this process will push woodwinds into the DCI activity. More money... less drum corps.

There is little if any interest in the bulk of the DCI corps themselves to add WW. As much as I am the pro-WW guy here, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

[Kamarag]

There is little if any interest in the bulk of the DCI corps themselves to add WW. As much as I am the pro-WW guy here, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

Correct. Additionally, you can already create fantastic woodwind sounds using synth, and corps have used electronic wind instruments before, just as they've used electric stringed instruments.

[MikeD]

I'm merely trying to get people here thinking out of the box & brainstorming. I don't have a business plan written yet for the regionalization model so I certainly don't have all the answers. I want to see this activity not only continue, but prosper & grow as well. DCI has presided over an activity that has gone from 500 drum corps to what, 65 or so? A 35 year trend like this in business gets you and many others fired. Its time to think and talk about doing things differently.

Brainstorming is great; it opens up conversation in all directions. Don't feel bad on a personal level if some are totally against the idea and post their own views, because that is what brainstorming is for...to discuss issues from every angle.

I happen to DISAGREE with this totally. DCI was never, IMO, presiding over 500 competitive corps. Most of those smaller local-based-corps had little if anything to do with DCI. They failed all by themselves due to reasons posted many times, due to factors both within drum corps and outside in the "real world".

[C.Holland]

Brainstorming is great; it opens up conversation in all directions. Don't feel bad on a personal level if some are totally against the idea and post their own views, because that is what brainstorming is for...to discuss issues from every angle.

I happen to DISAGREE with this totally. DCI was never, IMO, presiding over 500 competitive corps. Most of those smaller local-based-corps had little if anything to do with DCI. They failed all by themselves due to reasons posted many times, due to factors both within drum corps and outside in the "real world".

You mean all those little corps that sprouted up for a season or two in neighborhood, and then went away while some other little church corps sprouted up in the same neighborhood, and a season or two later went away? They were never going to be anything, they never really tried to be anything permanent.

[cixelsyd]

There is little if any interest in the bulk of the DCI corps themselves to add WW. As much as I am the pro-WW guy here, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

The same thoughts were bandied about concerning trombones a couple of years ago.

[Kamarag]

The same thoughts were bandied about concerning trombones a couple of years ago.

Eh, there's been interest in using any/all brass instruments for a long time. It was discussed in the instructors' caucus as early as 2004 (when electronics were originally introduced). Woodwinds, on the other hand, have absolutely zero support in the instructors' caucus, and until that changes, the posturing of a few vocal pro-woodwind supporters won't mean squat.

[UKSuperman]

I apologize since I haven't read every post in this thread, but do you have a membership to the regular season of DCI Live? It's the cost of two tickets ($70), and you can watch several shows. Obviously it's not the same as seeing shows live, but it's still pretty great.

I don't have internet. Lol. I use my phone. And I have straight talk, so I don't think that would work. Though, I think next year I'm gonna break down and get wifi just for DCI LIVE.

[jwillis35]

I'm merely trying to get people here thinking out of the box & brainstorming. I don't have a business plan written yet for the regionalization model so I certainly don't have all the answers. I want to see this activity not only continue, but prosper & grow as well. DCI has presided over an activity that has gone from 500 drum corps to what, 65 or so? A 35 year trend like this in business gets you and many others fired. Its time to think and talk about doing things differently.

Totally get where you are coming from. But DCI never had 500 corps under its wing, as MikeD point out. Most of those 500+ corps from yesteryear were gone before DCI began in 1972. Many of them had only a few years of life and were then gone. Often they were not built for long-term success, and to be fair most of them would not have known what it would take to achieve long-term success at that time. It would have been difficult to see the future and how the economy, the laws, tax laws (even for non-profits), insurance, and all the rest would change.

Another thing that needs to be brought up is public education. In the good ole days of drum & bugle corps -- during the era of the parade corps, the neighborhood corps, church corps, and even the Class A competitive units -- music education was often not as well supported in the schools, if they even had a band or orchestra. Even though we are always fighting for the arts in the schools, the decades from 1960 - 1990 saw a HUGE increase in school bands and orchestra with professional, licensed teachers. Many of those schools build infrastructure in music rooms, rehearsal rooms, stages, not to mention the growth of the NFL and College Football, which obviously popularized marching band to an even greater level during that time.

Clearly the growth of public education made it possible for kids to get some music education, and that eliminated the need (slowly) for the local, neighborhood corps. Combine that with economy, management and you can see why there was decline.

But the cost went even further. The corps from that era that did survive had to make adjustments in cost of staff and designers. No longer could you hire someone with limited music or design experience. As the years progressed the D&BC had to hire excellent teachers, musicians, designers, and many of these people now had degrees in those fields. They are not going to work for dirt money. Even in the 80s there was still some staff that were working for almost nothing, but if you want to be fair and successful today that model simply doesn't work.

I honestly prefer things today. Like I said, I'm not an old old timer, but I'm 51 and have seen a lot and heard a lot. I think corps are better managed today. When I met David Glasgow years ago (I was on the board for 5 years and continue to call bingo for Bloo) I was enamored and excited about his outlook on the activity and where it could go. He is young and bright and full of great ideas for giving these kids a great experience in a competitive environment, and he works hard at the business model. To me that is your typical corps director today -- a business person with great leadership and an understanding of youth arts and fundraising models. Years ago there were people leading these corps who had no experience at any of this stuff.

George Hopkins, for all the grief he takes, has been at the forefront of leading a charge away from the old model. Many have not liked all his ideas (I am certainly in that camp) but to ignore his impact on today's drum corps would be foolish. The change to Bb/F instrumentation, the use of amps and electronics, pushing for the leasing/re-sell model for brass and percussion (one that is easier for the manufacturers to do with the band instruments), the umbrella organization he created with YEA, how he helped Crossmen stay alive and ultimately found them a nice home in Texas, and on and on are all examples of him (along with Gibbs and others) leading a charge to build a better infrastructure. He wasn't afraid to move the Cadets to new homes. He did so 3 times to my knowledge (from Garfield to Hackensack, to Bergenfield, to Allentown). These moves are not always liked, but keeping a corps alive was more important to him than seeing them stay in the same city and possibly perish. I believe he had to fight bankruptcy at least 2 times.

The Blue Devils continue to be the model for how we can setup an infrastructure and support not only one corps, but multiple corps and other initiatives, and they have something for every level of talent and commitment (A, B, C corps, International Corps, and more). SCV too. Being allowed to run bingo 7 days a week helps, but I think it gives many old and new drum corps a look at how things can be funded and setup.

Edited July 19, 2016 by jwillis35

[Eleran]

I'm not convinced that "the kids" necessarily want, e.g., more synth bass and less tuba, or to take one of your examples, poor balance of electronics. Is there some way to test propositions like that?

I know one kid that doesn't like. I bet most brass players would agree with him - more focus on the brass and the marching. I know internallly, there were a lot of "gallows-humor" jokes about potentially having to wear spandex costumes.

[Eleran]

Drum corps was never where the "money" was. The real money is in marching band. Instrument/equipment sales are an actual industry, whose customer base is largely subsidised by scholastic budgets. Drum corps, once a relatively popular and populous activity with hundreds of competing corps, has shrunk so precipitously that what remains appears to be more of a showroom for the marching band industry than anything else. The entire direction of the activity is driven by the industry. Show design, instruction and competitive results are determined by a surprisingly small cadre of people with overlapping interests in DCI, WGI, marching band circuits, scholastic teaching jobs and industry sales/endorsement positions. The tour swims in industry sponsorship dollars, hosted at stadiums awash in manufacturer banners. Shows themselves are exercises in "product placement", with the latest newly legalized band item (this year, trombones) inserted at the urging of sponsors in a manner similar to that of cigarettes in movies and TV.

Meow, meow, meow, meow