wvu80 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 i started enjoying this place when i decided how stupid scores were. particularly GE. maybe it's becasue as a teacher, i'm forced to use an ever-changing set of "approved" rubrics. it's ironic because in their attempt to make evaluation less subjective , all they do is divide the subjectivity into 4-5 separate categories. it's truly absurd. Perhaps absurd from a teaching point of view (yours) but not absurd from a competitive point of view (the corps). This 2016 season is a little different from the latter viewpoint if you think about it. Detailed recaps which reveal the preferences of individual judges are now being withheld from the public and not being shared inside the judging community. The "judges are biased" cry from fans and corps alike are now being addressed in a very serious way. IF a judge shows a certain bias (I'm not saying they do) that bias is minimized in the adjudication by balancing it out with up to three other opinions. The perceived bias is minimized. I think I agree with you Lance that on the surface it appears "absurd" to have to have 4 judges for a single caption. But from the highly competitive angle of the corps and relative subjective scores of the adjudicators that determine world championships, it makes sense and even more importantly, it insulates the DCI judging community as a whole from the accusation of "unfair." The judging system in 2016 couldn't be more fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 And really, there aren't any "tiers". It's just how we here on DCP are classifying them. Probably a good discussion for next "off-season," but I've been pondering this condition for some time. A logical, next progression in judging MIGHT be, awarding more than one top medal. It's almost blasphemous to many, but under such a change we could eventually read this headline: Three corps received GOLD Medals at this year's DCI World Class Championships in Indianapolis. They are Carolina Crown, Bluecoats, and Blue Devils (all just used for illustration). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) It is in the northeast. If Boston does not make Finals, it will be the 1st time that no Corps from New England, NY or NJ has made the Top 12. Not only in DCI history ( DCI inception of 1972), but also in recorded Junior Corps Drum Corps history. ( VFW, American Legion, World Open, CYO Nationals, etc ). Most years, this section of the Country would have between 2-5 in the Top 12 in the country. Even the Cadets ( that moved from NJ ) are having an off year as well. New England, NY, NJ was once chock full of great top echelon Junior Corps. But its dying out. Drum Corps can not long survive without a northeast in play. For just one example, DCI will never get back on TV ever again, if it becomes just a regional activity, with the loss of the heavily populated Northeast for interest and exposure at its Finals Championships. It will become like the sport of rodeo. Popular in Texas, and on TV regionally, but with little to no interest at all in New England, New York, New Jersey ( or Florida ) to generate sufficient interest from any networks to consider putting its Finals on TV ever again. How is Pennsylvania not in New England? Everyone - Brasso wasn't describing "New England" in his original post, which would exclude Pennsylvania. He said "in the Northeast". He then went on to say in "New England, New York and New Jersey". However, he is being utterly disingenuous with this post. In the first case, Pennsylvania is considered to be part of the "Northeast", so Cadets would still be in the mix - he just chose to exclude them because that would defeat the point he is trying to make. In the second place, Cadets's offices may be in Pennsylvania (still only 90 miles from Garfield, NJ), but their weekend rehearsals are in New Jersey itself. In the third place, New Jersey is the state with the greatest number of marchers on the Cadets' roster. Also, Cadets having "an off year" is part of your evidence that Northeastern drum corps is dead?!? 5th place means "dead in the Northeast"? Well thank god for Muchachos in 1974 making 4th place, and the only Northeast corps to make the top 12, thus saving drum corps in the Northeast (even though it didn't save themselves). Cadets currently in 5th, Boston currently in 13th, Jersey Surf still in World Class, Spartans 5th in Open, 7th Regiment 6th in Open, Raiders still in Open Class, and over 1/2 of all DCA corps in the Northeast. Are the population and demographics of the Northeast what they were 30-60 years ago? Absolutely not, and the northeast clearly will never be exactly the same as it was when we were kids. But drum corps has hardly died in the northeast. Postscript edit: and anyway, I'm not even sure how much we can make any judgments based solely upon the names and office locations of the corps. Why can't DCI release data every year on its marchers, showing where they all come from, their ages, their schools, their college majors, etc. I know they do some internal voluntary surveys, but from what I was seeing, the participation rates were not great. Can't it be someone's job at DCI (even an intern) to collect, collate, analyze and present such data to themselves and the public, and maybe guide future planning (eg. where should they seek to have more shows, what demographic areas need more attention, etc., etc.) Edited July 24, 2016 by Eleran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Probably a good discussion for next "off-season," but I've been pondering this condition for some time. A logical, next progression in judging MIGHT be, awarding more than one top medal. It's almost blasphemous to many, but under such a change we could eventually read this headline: Three corps received GOLD Medals at this year's DCI World Class Championships in Indianapolis. They are Carolina Crown, Bluecoats, and Blue Devils (all just used for illustration). Fred, I gave you a "Like" and I wanted to quote your post to show my support for your idea of awarding Gold Medals to corps that score within a few percentage points of each other at the top. It is NOT a crazy idea, it rewards achievement at the highest levels, and it is already being done in other sports around the world. I hope DCI is listening to innovative ideas like yours that advance the activity and recognize greatness. Edited July 24, 2016 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I don't think New York or New Joisey are part of "New England" either. You " think " ? But are not sure ? Wow... just wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forevergreen Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 And some variation of this has been posted here for...let me see now, how long has it been since the World Premiere preview? Was thinking the same thing. All three have challenging programs. All three are very capable of winning- and not because two are "stale" or one will wear thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Probably a good discussion for next "off-season," but I've been pondering this condition for some time. A logical, next progression in judging MIGHT be, awarding more than one top medal. It's almost blasphemous to many, but under such a change we could eventually read this headline: Three corps received GOLD Medals at this year's DCI World Class Championships in Indianapolis. They are Carolina Crown, Bluecoats, and Blue Devils (all just used for illustration). Sure... and we could have 3 Super Bowl Champions, 3 World Series Champions, 3 Stanley Cup Champions, 3 NCAA Women's Basketball Champions, 3 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions, 3 Heavyweight Div. Boxing Champions, All Olympic event competitions will have 3 Champions, World Cup Soccer each year will have 3 Champions, etc. If we can dumb down the top insofar as selecting the ultimate ChampionS , lets consider going all the way with this, have full blown DCI socialism, and give every Corps a " participation " medal of equal value, equal worth. Edited July 24, 2016 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 , Cadets's offices may be in Pennsylvania (still only 90 miles from Garfield, NJ), but their weekend rehearsals are in New Jersey itself. If the determination of where a Corps is from is based upon preseason rehearsal sites, camps, ( one of your criteria ) then this changes everything. It means most of the midwest Corps, are really from Texas... and BAC is really from Vermont/ Florida, etc. But I don't think thats one of the primary criteria that should be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 If the determination of where a Corps is from is based upon preseason rehearsal sites, camps, ( one of your criteria ) then this changes everything. It means most of the midwest Corps, are really from Texas... and BAC is really from Vermont/ Florida, etc. But I don't think thats one of the primary criteria that should be used. Not necessarily, no. But it's probably as good a criteria as the location of the corps' office. As I added later - unless DCI ever releases data on the demographics of its marchers, I think we're at a loss to know the full picture. I do know, however, that NJ still provides the most marchers to Cadets, and where the marchers come from is definitely a criteria that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mead09 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Good show yesterday and IMO probably the right winner. Surprised that Crown were ahead of BD though? Don't get that one but there it is. Looks like BAC might have a problem making finals, Ooops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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