Cadets 2017

[Tobias]

It looks no less terrible or ridiculous than if you're wearing a mini half-skirtlet and a huge two-foot long feather sticking out of your head, or if you wear garishly-colored pajamas or screen printed onesies. The issue for me is that it's now more or less compulsory to add all that body movement, regardless of whether or not it's appropriately choreographed to the context of what's going on in the show. The basic vocabulary for brass and percussion body movement is limited to begin with because of those pesky and cumbersome instruments in their hands. So if a corps makes the design choice to use that stuff sparingly, even it makes sense to do so, they'll probably wind up suffering when the scores are tabulated. Not because what they presented wasn't necessarily extremely well thought out, constructed, coordinated, and performed, but because they didn't do as much squatting and lunging or rolling around on the ground as the other team, even if THEY looked just as ridiculous as you do. There simply is no room in DCI right now for more than one design approach when it comes to this thing, and that's a problem for me.

So all the sudden, after decades of excellence, if the Cadets decide to pare down the body stuff to something more "appropriate" to their look and identity (whatever people think that means), they lose. Yet if they play the body squat game like everyone else, people will complain that it doesn't look good with their uniform, no matter how well it's actually performed underneath, and they lose. It saddens me that there no longer seems to be room for more than one approach.

Agreed. The judging system is awful. They're pushing everyone in the same direction. I applaud Bluecoats sliding down ramps in undergarments but I don't want Cadets to do it with their classic uni nor do I want them wearing bodysuits with Cadets printed on the back. All styles should be embraced and judged accordingly. (Traditional, contemporary, hybrid etc).

[George Dixon]

[George Dixon]

and... we have an updated cover page image on the Cadets website with the M&G

[corpsband]

Agreed. The judging system is awful. They're pushing everyone in the same direction. I applaud Bluecoats sliding down ramps in undergarments but I don't want Cadets to do it with their classic uni nor do I want them wearing bodysuits with Cadets printed on the back. All styles should be embraced and judged accordingly. (Traditional, contemporary, hybrid etc).

I think there's plenty of opportunity to find your own kind of movement outside marching. Dance has a crazy amount of variety -- no one says you have to use the same vocabulary as everyone else. But the presence (or lack) of that additional vocabulary is going to affect you competitively. I really don't think the Cadets need to look like other corps when "moving" -- but they will need to do more than march.

The reason you see so many corps doing the same kind of movement is that it's easier to copy than to create. A few corps corps really started digging into moving away from "body" (mechanical motion to fill halts) and towards some actual dance vocabulary. So many other corps just tried to duplicate what they saw being rewarded. There's nothing in the sheet that says "look like Crown" or "look like BD".

I heard Mia Michaels speak about dance at one of those after-finals mass-dance events WGI sometimes hosts. Wish I had recorded it -- it was so inspiring to hear her point of view. This short little video capture a touch of it.

Edited September 30, 2016 by corpsband

[Tobias]

and... we have an updated cover page image on the Cadets website with the M&G

Wishing the Cadets a successful audition season.

[seen-it-all]

I think there's plenty of opportunity to find your own kind of movement outside marching. Dance has a crazy amount of variety -- no one says you have to use the same vocabulary as everyone else. But the presence (or lack) of that additional vocabulary is going to affect you competitively. I really don't think the Cadets need to look like other corps when "moving" -- but they will need to do more than march.

They DO do more than just march, and have for many years now. Yet many don't give it the recognition its worth because they think "it doesn't look good with their uniform," which I don't necessarily agree with, in the same way that wearing the onesies or pajamas doesn't automatically make the body movement look "better" on other corps. Some corps have done some terrific stuff with corps proper body movement over the years, both in terms of the choreography and execution. But for me, maybe 80+% of the time, very rarely is it ever truly clean. Too many performers (especially brass), too many inaccuracies in the minute details that are required for really graceful and "clean" movement and technique. I was astonished at some of the glaring errors I saw from performer to performer from the top corps this year on some pretty basic stuff -- non-matching foot positions, body line discrepancies, etc. And this doesn't even factor in musicality of design or whether or not the movement is put in there as obvious "filler" (gotta check off that list) or if it's truly meant to be a focal point.

I understand that this stuff is difficult. Especially when you're also playing at the same time. But so is marching a world class drill at a world class level, and it bothers me that actual marching seems to be more and more devalued these days. To me, there is still nothing in this activity that can compare with well-designed and well-executed drill, especially when all the pieces come together, the crowd is on their feet going crazy, and you're left wondering how on earth they managed to do that. The Cadets (IMO) still bring that to the field in a way that few other corps can match, but I'm afraid it just no longer matters when you look at the direction things are going and what's being rewarded. It would be a crying shame if they felt they needed to resort to screen-printed leotards and scrapping the insane kind of marching exhibitions they've built their name and reputation on because the scoring trends say "nobody cares how well you do that stuff anymore (or how much the crowd goes bananas when you do it). What else you got?" There's gotta be room for more than one approach.

(And seriously, if this is the direction the activity is going, then they need to bring in judges with a whole lot more design and choreography experience to evaluate it. But the "infusion of youth and more specialized expertise in visual judging" is a whole other subject...)

Edited October 1, 2016 by seen-it-all

[corpsband]

They DO do more than just march, ...But the "infusion of youth and more specialized expertise in visual judging" is a whole other subject...)

I did read your entire post. It was long. Here's my summary of your points:

The Cadets have been doing non-marching movement for a long time. They just don't get credit for because of their uniforms.

Disagree. They did "body" and chose not to do dance. Which is ironic because the Cadets had been the corps blazing new trails for a long time. And the folks to make it happen were there and wanted to do it. But a line was drawn.

The uniform is thing is a red herring. The Cadets never looked awkward because of their uniforms.

No one is clean anymore -- all you see is tics.

Disagree but there is an element of truth to what you say. IMHO marching was never as pristine as we would like to think it was. Memory is a funny thing. We see what we want to see. But yes -- there are probably more errors today. OTOH there is far more content. Balances out for me.

Non-traditional uniforms are stupid.

Disagree. Traditional uniforms are costumes. The Cadets are not enrolled at West Point (and heck that's a costume too!)

Marching is harder than dance.

Strongly disagree. Play a long sustain and go into and out of the ground properly without any effect on the sound. It's far harder than marching. Properly taught, dance engages in every muscle in your body at once. A plie is not bending your knees.

Once you've mastered the separation of upper and lower bodies, marching is almost unconscious. Yeah it can be challenging. But IMO not even in the same ball park as dance done properly.

Marching is better than dance.

Disagree. I think it enhances the music in amazing ways.

Judges are not qualified to judge dance.

Disagree. A lot of the field judges actually have a background in guard / dance. Is it "real" dance? Nope. Drum corps dance is not "real" dance. "Real" dance takes many, many years of training and refinement. It's drum corps dance. We all know that -- we don't pretend it's real dance. But that doesn't mean you can't teach sound first principles when doing drum corps dance. OTOH some guards get scary good to looking like real dance. And ballerinas can't throw sevens and catch in a split! Drum corps dance is hard and you have to commit significant time before and during tour to properly train your members (and staff).

Edited October 1, 2016 by corpsband

[George Dixon]

the West Point uniform is a "costume"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'd love to see corpsband tell one of those WP grads that it is a "costume"

[seen-it-all]

I did read your entire post. It was long. Here's my summary of your points:

Well, what you've done is less a summary and more like a gross exaggeration of the points I was trying to make. My opinions -- and I feel I presented them about as respectfully and clearly as I could -- contain a lot more nuance than you're summarizing on my behalf, assigning "absolutes" where it was not my intent to do so. I don't appreciate those kinds of misrepresentations.

[corpsband]

Well, what you've done is less a summary and more like a gross exaggeration of the points I was trying to make. My opinions -- and I feel I presented them about as respectfully and clearly as I could -- contain a lot more nuance than you're summarizing on my behalf, assigning "absolutes" where it was not my intent to do so. I don't appreciate those kinds of misrepresentations.

please tell me which statement misrepresents your stance. i think you're right -- you tried to couch your arguments in much more flowery language. sorry for cutting right to the facts. but i don't think a single point i presented as yours is inaccurate at all. you just don't appreciate seeing them presented in such a stark fashion. i guess my question is: why do you object to laying things out in the open instead of trying to dress them up?