Need help with BD Chop and Paste, Walk and Stand approach to design

[Stu]

3 hours ago, Usually Mistified said:

As I have been at every DCI Dallas - Lake Highlands show since 2001, you are referring to 2012. The high was 107 with a heat index of 131, but there were for more than "a few diehards in the stands."  If want actual numbers, the Lake Highland Area Band Club likely have those as they have been hosting this show well over 30 years.

It is not the Lake Highlands show I am referring to but the Saginaw/Ft. Worth show in 2011.  When I typed the previous post I was working off of memory, knew it was recent, and knew it was near Dallas,

Edited July 13, 2017 by Stu

[84BDsop]

On 7/11/2017 at 11:42 PM, Stu said:

This was back in the nineties, but talked with someone who was a university student that had secured a spot with BD and was 'required' to attend weekly rehearsals starting in January or February.  So, they dropped out of the university, moved to Concord, enrolled at an institution somewhere near there, and then had the course credits transferred back to their original university after the season was over.

Probably Diablo Valley College.

I didn't have to do that in 84.  'Course, I was flunking out of college anyway, so not going back didn't hurt much.

[BDCorno]

On 7/9/2017 at 8:53 AM, Candid Insight said:

Although I am new to DCP I have been involved in the activity as a marching member, instructor, arranger, and judge for over 4 decades (brass).

Because of that, I have seen the transitions the activity has made and the posts in this thread reflect a breadcrumb trail of the progression, plus the diverse perspectives people have regarding the design changes we now see.  Although I am an older fan, I appreciate most of the innovation that we are seeing.

Park and play has become a staple for corps for the 'compulsory' sixteenth note segments seemingly written into all all brass programs. Some corps do it (play while not moving) more than others (as noted with Blue Devils). Even the 'walking to the next set' approach is not particularly offensive to me if well coordinated and not drawn out.  What seems a bit unfair is when one top 5 corps (Corps A) walks to the next set for their transitions and does a ton of park and play while another top 5 corps (Corps B) delivers a continuous orchestrated and difficult visual design, and much less park and play, yet Corps B gets lower scores.  This seems to reward a corps for attempting less.

An example from 2016 is Crown versus Blue Devils.  Both corps performed at an extremely high level.  Crown had very little 'park and play', and no significant walking to the next set in their show.  The Blue Devils had significant 'park and play' and quite a bit of 'less organized' transitions.  I appreciated both shows very much, but it seemed Crown got less credit in the content areas, specifically lower scores in Visual Analysis and Music Analysis.  From my perspective, it seems easier to perform while stationary and visual sets that are 'free form' act as almost as a 'break' from the visual being judged. Some people will disagree and cite Blue Devils' less organized transitions are part of their design and should get higher credit. I enjoy a difficult brass passage played well, and I think doing that on the move should get more credit. Personal preferences are huge and artistry is very subjective, so I know many people have a totally different take on this.  I am not saying that Crown should have been above Devils in overall scoring.  I am just pointing to those specific scores.  In my opinion, the brass books and performance levels were equivalent and since Crown attempted more they should not (in my opinion) have been under Devils in those specific captions.

Many of my friends are highly critical of the Blue Devils for doing less yet scoring more.  Some of them actually LOOK for where the Devils 'do less', even timing the amount of the park and play segments.  I try to look past the scores and just appreciate the incredible performances of all the corps.  My thanks to the original poster - this thread was interesting to read.

 

 

 

Please watch this video (crappy sound at best, but you see it from upstairs). I fail to see where BD stood around so much...they marched more drill that almost anyone, did more difficult stuff and did it better than almost anyone. BD dominates the visual sheets on a routine basis because of what they do, not some nefarious "mulligan" that they're given. The "BD stand around all the time" and the thought that Crown doesn't (they'll stop and go a lot, add it up and it's a big number) is patently false. Glad you're only a brass judge? Watch it. Then watch it again, and watch what they do. Outstanding. Crown was fantastic last year too...I thought that either they or BD should have won it over Bluecoats. I'd have been fine either way.

[skevinp]

On 7/11/2017 at 4:16 AM, LoveKathyG said:

Blah blippidy bloo blah meh.  

You had me until "meh".

[N.E. Brigand]

1 hour ago, BDCorno said:

Please watch this video (crappy sound at best, but you see it from upstairs). I fail to see where BD stood around so much... they marched more drill than almost anyone, did more difficult stuff and did it better than almost anyone. BD dominates the visual sheets on a routine basis because of what they do, not some nefarious "mulligan" that they're given. The "BD stand around all the time" and the thought that Crown doesn't (they'll stop and go a lot, add it up and it's a big number) is patently false.

Yes, my impression is that BD moved while playing a good deal more last year than they do this year. But last year they lost to a corps who moved while playing less, and they seem to have taken that lesson to heart.

[jjeffeory]

On 7/8/2017 at 1:53 PM, mirrormen said:

Not sure your point. this approach bothered me 10 years ago, but it seems to be getting worse. 

...and your comments only push their score higher and higher is the point...

[cowtown]

Bloo is paying the price this year for giving up playing in favor of having their horn line dance. The new uniforms are making it worse. Few will notice, some will get dancers that can play a little bit of horn but perhaps, we have hit peak park and dance and we can get back to hearing the brass play their horns instead of sitting them on the field...

[mellojay84]

On 7/8/2017 at 3:15 PM, mirrormen said:

"". . . BD’s brass stand and play for six minutes this year. I know that may """

be careful...  I actually put a lot of time and effort into timing the "park and bark" of the top 5 corps a couple years ago.. and was CRUCIFIED on this forum for it..  

(however I completely agree with you)  ;)  

[N.E. Brigand]

37 minutes ago, cowtown said:

Bloo is paying the price this year for giving up playing in favor of having their horn line dance. The new uniforms are making it worse. Few will notice, some will get dancers that can play a little bit of horn but perhaps, we have hit peak park and dance and we can get back to hearing the brass play their horns instead of sitting them on the field...

In this year's show, there is a section where BD puts their horns down to dance. If you're right about Bloo, shouldn't BD be paying the same price?

[SNModdison]

36 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

In this year's show, there is a section where BD puts their horns down to dance. If you're right about Bloo, shouldn't BD be paying the same price?

I counted 3 total occasion where BD marches and plays at the same time. 3. While doing so, the demand is very low (small step size and the tempos are not fast). I just don't know how that can be compared to what SCV and Crown are doing. The demand in those shows is so much greater.