FlamMan Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 6 hours ago, swmstom said: "Forgetting it's Madison" is precisely why so many are furious right now. That should NEVER be the case. To throw out everything that is Madison Scouts, to totally lose your identity for the sake of conforming to the activity makes me sick. There is no reason Scouts couldn't maintain their identity and still be modern, exciting AND competitive. Instead the admin has gone to the complete opposite end of the tradition spectrum...and it may kill this corps. 100% exactly right. I too am extremely worried that Madison may not survive this disaster of a season & this disaster of an administration. How in the world have the Scout alumni who run this great storied drum corp allowed it to devolve into this? Shame on them. You're fired! 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamMan Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 6 hours ago, Mad75 said: DING, DING, DING, GIVE THE MAN A CIGAR... Here in lies the heart of the matter that so many on this thread fail to realize or understand! Responsible and successful strategically smart companies and organizations ferociously protect their brand! This is done because intelligent leaders understand and dearly appreciate the history, blood, sweat and tears it took to build their precious and highly fragile brand to the heights of success! Furthermore, responsible and deeply circumspect leaders of such organizations realize that without their brand, they have nothing! And, THIS is the unforgivable travesty and sin that's been perpetrated upon the astounding legacy and memory of the once great Madison Scouts...For years now, the current leadership group from top to bottom who are responsible (CK, DP, Board President and Board) have irresponsibly failed to not only protect Madison's hard fought brand, but have failed to grow and perpetuate it! One can only conclude via their actions of years of dysfunctionality in product, placement, current feeder corps status, confusion of home location, antipathy towards alumni, public statements, PC social engineering, and now the push to go coed to name a few; that It leads one to believe that those who were tasked to protect, understand and build upon Madison's brand have not only failed the protection of the brand, but seemingly never defined it or appreciated it to begin with!...They have miserably failed our legacy. There's nothing there anymore that screams...This Is Madison! And, for those who would knee jerk and say, "all you want to do is take Madison back to the stone ages"...you fail to understand the makeup and importance of a brand. It's the understanding and defining of those irrefutable and non-negotiable unique qualities that have culminated in the mystique of Madison...It's the lightning in the bottle that you protect, nourish and grow brighter. Madison was once a destination and a benchmark. Madison used to be at the pinnacle of awe, power, finesse and the definition of what it meant to be "a drum corps fans dream"...No more, No more. You know who you are...You were given a solemn responsibility. That my friends might just be the greatest post ever posted on this message board. Well said, written & 100% spot on accurate. Thanks J. As for the Cigar, I'll take an Arturo Fuente 8-5-8 please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetOFFmyDot Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) Erased - Not helping this conversation. I was struggling to say it in a way that made sense and failed. Please carry on. Edited July 13, 2018 by GetOFFmyDot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad75 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, KPinCAL said: Homophobia? I don’t think so- it’s clear that fans of the Scouts know- and have known- that many Scouts - are gay and are perfectly fine with it. Sexuality had little to do with it. It’s more about not recognizing the product in front of you any longer Thanks for reeling us all back in after that curve ball...And, you couldn't be more right on...What ever happened to the Madison Scouts?...I can't find them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad75 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Wow, Wow, Wow...Tonight I ran across the following poetic post from a fellow Madison Alum on FB and had to share it here. It's derived from the words of the song MacArthur's Park which was our "concert" piece in both 1975 and 1976. I know that these words truly capture the sentiment of the hearts of many Madison Scout Alumni this very evening. MacArthur's Park is melting in the dark. All the sweet, green icing flowing down because someone left the cake out in the rain. And I don't think that I can take it, cause it took so long to bake it. And I'll never have that recipe again... MYNWA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Mad75 said: MacArthur's Park is melting in the dark. All the sweet, green icing flowing down because someone left the cake out in the rain. And I don't think that I can take it, cause it took so long to bake it. And I'll never have that recipe again... MYNWA Oh nooooo! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 6 hours ago, FlamMan said: That my friends might just be the greatest post ever posted on this message board. Well said, written & 100% spot on accurate. Thanks J. As for the Cigar, I'll take an Arturo Fuente 8-5-8 please. I fully understand and appreciate the importance of brands, and the Scouts brand. At the same time, you don’t honor history by being irrelevant today. You have to change with the times. This activity is nothing like what it was even a decade ago, let,alone three. It seems there is a very sizable contingent of Scouts alums who will never, not ever, let go of being an all male corps. They would literally rather finish 16th than change. Unfortunately it seems these alums also do not donate much money to Scouts, so you have the worst of both worlds. Being a Vanderbilt fan, its the same as Vandy football. They believe they deserve to compete in the Sec, but yet refuse to put the resources in to compete with the other members. They continue to finish at or near the bottom every year, and make the excuse of being a small School that cares about academics. And they keep cashing that fat SEC check, while overpromising and underdelivering to it’s fans every single year. They want to have their cake and eat it too. There are many challenges that Scouts have failed to meet. Show design is one of them. But when you can’t recruit anyone but teenagers it’s impossible to put high danger shows on the field. When you finish outside of finals, it’s almost impossible to raise funds. And so long as a huge contingent of its “supporters” both refuse to support change and refuse to donate enough money to stay afloat, nothing can change. No one can empirically prove that becoming a coed corps would help or hurt their standings and viability. There are plenty of coed corps that are not competitive. Personally, I would hope that they could return to relevance as the Scouts. But I would rather thy return to relevance, period, than be subjected to misery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianella Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, jwillis35 said: There is a lot here I agree with. I am a long-time fan of the corps and many of the most entertaining shows I have ever seen were performed by the Madison Scouts. However, putting uniforms, costumes, and musical/visual identity to the side, I have to wonder how serious the complaints would be if this corps simply performed better. To me, if you're going to make drastic changes to branding and style then you MUST enforce those changes with clean and stellar performance. I feel as thought the teaching of brass, percussion, guard, and marching has been derailed to some extent in order to finesse this new style. No matter the demand level or style of show they choose to perform the thing I always look for is excellence in marching, playing, and spinning/dancing. Good things will come in time, I am sure. Rooting for the members of the 2018 corps to finish strong and enjoy the summer. But I do feel the staff needs to back off on show theme and visual extras and modify things so the corps can simply march and play at an exceptional level. You imply this storm would go away if they performed better and give a nod to the most memorable shows are scout shows. It is the creative design. these shows have no soul. Last show I watched, I saw polite clapping 4 times. When was the last time they got a standing ovation, 2015 probably. No the problem is not simple performance. I also believe, talking to former staff, that there is an unhealthy environment in the leadership which is leading to these shows. Since Jim Mason left the shows have been amateurish. I believe there is a fear that change isn’t coming to the corps. As this debate has dragged on for 4 years now, I am afraid the corps is on a course to fold..... Edited July 13, 2018 by brianella 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcityscout Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Mike Rapp you could not have said it any more plain than this!!! As a scout alum myself I would rather see this corps change and evolve with the activity and stay relevant, rather than become at some point become non existent. I marched in the Scouts in the mid 80s and if I want to see what it was in the past, I simply pop in the DVD. But as for young performers these days, the question is “what have you done lately?’ It’s not “what were you back then”? I’ve said this years ago that the Scouts should have been evolving with other corps such as the Cavaliers, instead of just wanting to “please the crowd”. Say what you to say about BD, but having the opportunity to look at various organizations now in the activity objectively, I agree with their philosophy. It is to pursue championships. Because winning takes care of a lot of ills. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad75 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, MikeRapp said: I fully understand and appreciate the importance of brands, and the Scouts brand. At the same time, you don’t honor history by being irrelevant today. You have to change with the times. This activity is nothing like what it was even a decade ago, let,alone three. It seems there is a very sizable contingent of Scouts alums who will never, not ever, let go of being an all male corps. They would literally rather finish 16th than change. Unfortunately it seems these alums also do not donate much money to Scouts, so you have the worst of both worlds. Being a Vanderbilt fan, its the same as Vandy football. They believe they deserve to compete in the Sec, but yet refuse to put the resources in to compete with the other members. They continue to finish at or near the bottom every year, and make the excuse of being a small School that cares about academics. And they keep cashing that fat SEC check, while overpromising and underdelivering to it’s fans every single year. They want to have their cake and eat it too. There are many challenges that Scouts have failed to meet. Show design is one of them. But when you can’t recruit anyone but teenagers it’s impossible to put high danger shows on the field. When you finish outside of finals, it’s almost impossible to raise funds. And so long as a huge contingent of its “supporters” both refuse to support change and refuse to donate enough money to stay afloat, nothing can change. No one can empirically prove that becoming a coed corps would help or hurt their standings and viability. There are plenty of coed corps that are not competitive. Personally, I would hope that they could return to relevance as the Scouts. But I would rather thy return to relevance, period, than be subjected to misery. With all do respect, I think you've missed the entire point. Your brand captures your essence, those few best quality bedrock underpinnings that equate to the makeup of your established public persona...I.E, "there's the Scouts"! Without your identifiable personality you become schizophrenic, and nobody recognizes you anymore! It's not about a rigid dogma...great brands allow for flexibility and modernization so one stays "relevant", while not having to abandon those several wonderful, recognizable qualities that everyone loves you for...Your Brand! I find it interesting though that you immediately take a left turn and fixate on a "dog whistle" distraction by bringing up the coed topic...why? Is there a problem with the Scouts the precludes them to fix it by going coed? Madison has real, longstanding challenges to focus their attention that have nothing to do with going coed. It's interesting as well that you assume that the alumni simply refuse to support their corps due to change...That assertion couldn't be further from the truth! Without going into the very lengthy back story, The Madison Scouts Drum and Bugle Corps Association dropped the ball on and for all practical purposes turned their back on their 80 yrs worth of alumni decades ago...I contend that to this day it remains an untapped juggernaut! As to recruitment, you're proving the point! When you've abandoned your famous characteristics...your identity; everything begins to snowball to the point of, "why would I want to go there"? And, "if I do go there, it's only as a launch point to something better"!...And, that's where we find today's Madison Scouts. You want a return to relevance?...Look behind you, there's thousands of people in that same line! The Madison Scouts are no different than any other poorly run organization. Great leadership can turn it all around and turn off the misery! Edited July 13, 2018 by Mad75 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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