Madison Scouts 2018

[Mad75]

1 hour ago, MikeRapp said:

“No one can empirically prove that becoming a coed corps would help or hurt their standings and viability. There are plenty of coed corps that are not competitive.”

You've been given ample repeated opportunities, but you refuse to answer the question...Why the push for Madison to go coed?  At this point I have to conclude one of two reasons...You're either part of the PC, social justice camp.  Or, you believe that the cure to Madison's long standing ills will somehow be magically fixed by adding females.  Again, since you've failed to expound  upon your reasoning via a number of attempts to draw you into the sunlight, it's time to address your baseless "squeaky wheel" agenda.  This out of left field topic, which began to be propagated in earnest by CK and DP last year, is nothing other than a shinny object distraction.  And, why are they doing this?  Plain and simple...They've run out of and are incapable of "real answers"!  Those same individuals (and Board President) who were granted the keys to Madison's storied legacy 10+ years ago, have failed  miserably on multiple fronts!  So, instead of fixing real problems which they've shown time and again they're clueless to know how to fix, they started this grand "drip" distraction campaign of going coed.  It's a placebo without extracting the disease.  So, at the end of the day, what do you have?  A feel good moment because you exacted some horrible wrong via your social engineering triumph?  What's that saying about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?...the definition of insanity!  At the end of the day, hip-hip-hooray!  You've gotten rid of any remaining resemblance of the Madison Scouts, but you've got females!  Congratulations!  But, then you wake up the next day realizing you've done nothing to fix your systemic Leadership problems...You're still not running the corps like a well oiled corporate entity!  So, what have you accomplished?  There's absolutely no redeeming connection between the answers to Madison's problems and going coed...None, Noda, Zilch!  There's a worlds worth of difference between doing something that feels good, verses solving real problems...Your's and Madison's Leadership coed push solves nothing and probably would have the opposite affect of destroying and putting the final nail in the coffin!

Edited July 13, 2018 by Mad75

[TRacer]

Looking at this through a slightly different lens and setting show design for the moment, some SCV alums are still having difficulty adjusting to their “New! Improved!” image. The last time SC wore the classic look (red tunic/white pants/Aussie) was a couple of years ago, and now thet’re in (gasp!!) CREAM loose tops and (double gasp, my pearls!!) cricket leggings! As a FMM and now corps dad the classic look would not have worked with Oroboros or Babylon because those dang things were always fitted a bit tight, and having “Russian naval officers” (what the classic look was based on) doing dub-stepping, giant wheel upside down rolling props, strutting and backflips would have GR coming back as a Force Ghost to engage in the “spirited dialogue” he was famous for (“What...have....YOU...??!!??”)

I for one like that SCV has gone so far afield  with the look, and it’s probably MUCH ** safer ** for the performers as well.  And THAT was GR’s big thing: making sure the kids were SAFE (remember the interview he did in ‘88?) so in that respect I think he’d be “very pleased.” 

I do concede though that— to paraphrase the wise time-traveling warrior Samurai Jack— “SCV...jump good!!”

Edited July 13, 2018 by TRacer
Typos, eyesight not great

[Mega]

12 minutes ago, TRacer said:

Looking at this through a slightly different lens and setting show design for the moment, some SCV alums are still having difficulty adjusting to their “New! Improved!” image. The last time SC wore the classic look (red tunic/white pants/Aussie) was a couple of years ago, and now thet’re in (gasp!!) CREAM loose tops and (double gasp, my pearls!!) cricket leggings! As a FMM and now corps dad the classic look would not have worked with Oroboros or Babylon because those dang things were always fitted a bit tight, and having “Russian naval officers” (what the classic look was based on) doing dub-stepping, giant wheel upside down rolling props, strutting and backflips would have GR coming back as a Force Ghost to engage in the “spirited dialogue” he was famous for (“What...have....YOU...??!!??”)

I for one like that SCV has gone so far afield  with the look, and it’s probably MUCH ** safer ** for the performers as well.  And THAT was GR’s big thing: making sure the kids were SAFE (remember the interview he did in ‘88?) so in that respect I think he’d be “very pleased.” 

I do concede though that— to paraphrase the wise time-traveling warrior Samurai Jack— “SCV...jump good!!”

Ok, let's not hijack this thread since it's suppose to be about Madison.  Focus people. Focus please.

[MikeRapp]

1 hour ago, Mad75 said:

You've been given ample repeated opportunities, but you refuse to answer the question...Why the push for Madison to go coed?  At this point I have to conclude one of two things...You're either part of the PC, social justice camp.  Or, you believe that the cure to Madison's long standing ills will somehow be magically fixed by adding females.  Again, since you've failed to expound  upon your reasoning on multiple attempts to draw you into the sunlight, it's time to address your baseless "squeaky wheel" agenda.  This out of left field topic, which began to be propagated in earnest by CK and DP last year, is nothing other than a shinny object distraction.  And, why are they doing this?  Plain and simple...They've run out of "real answers"!  Those same individuals (and Board President) who were granted the keys to Madison's storied legacy 10+ years ago, have failed  miserably on multiple fronts!  So, instead of fixing real problems which they've shown time and again they are clueless to know how to fix, they started this grand "drip" distraction campaign of going coed.  It's a placebo without extracting the disease.  So, at the end of the day, what do you have?  A feel good moment because you exacted some horrible wrong via your social engineering triumph?  What's that saying about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?...the definition of insanity!  At the end of the day, hip-hip-hooray!  You've gotten rid of any remaining resemblance of the Madison Scouts, but you've got females!  Congratulations!  But, then you wake up the next day realizing you've done nothing to fix your systemic Leadership problems...You're still not running the corps like a well oiled corporate entity!  So, what have you accomplished?  There's absolutely no redeeming connection between the answers to Madison's problems and going coed...None, Noda, Zilch!  There's a worlds worth of difference between doing something that feels good, verses solving real problems...Your's and Madison's Leadership coed push solves nothing and probably would have the opposite affect of destroying and putting the final nail in the coffin!

I'm not interested into getting into heated arguments with people who clearly have much more invested in Scouts than I do—and who attempt to win arguments by calling people names, set up endless straw men, and jumping to wild conclusions about my personal character.

I have absolutely no "squeaky wheel" agenda. None. Not any. I have nothing to gain or lose from Scouts existing as is, as some other thing, or folding. I'm not some secret PR agent of the folks in charge of Scouts. I'm not even a DCI alum of any kind. So you can choose to ignore me from here on out, put me on mute, whatever you wish. 

Not once have I stated or suggested that going co-ed would solve their problems—though it is quite obvious that being one gender, be it male or female, dramatically limits your potential enrollment and show concept options. You may view this as a limitation or an opportunity or both. Many who have a lot more hands-on experience in DCI do not believe being all-male is a fatal hindrance to success. That's great, I hope that's true.

I'm not convinced. But I'm nothing but a guy who likes drum corps.

Regardless, the constant straw man argument of, I can't PROVE that being co-ed would work, is silly. You can't prove being all-male will work either. Or all-female. If your goal is to be in medalist contention, then I might suggest you look at the corps that are in medal contention (which again includes the all-male Cavaliers and a dozen co-ed corps) and follow their lead. No doubt that includes making significant changes in MANY things BEFORE you would even consider going co-ed. If that's not your goal, and there are many DCI corps that fit this description, then you don't have to change anything but your fund raising efforts to keep doing what you're doing.

Clearly you are willing to die on the all-male hill. That's your right. I for one would hope Scouts can retain their unique identity in the activity, as they are one of the corps that got me excited about drum corps decades ago.That said, what I'm not interested in, personally, is seeing the corps continue to decline into irrelevance. For me there is no honor in representing the history of Scouts by being essentially out of Finals before we even hit August—all male or co-ed.

Edited July 13, 2018 by MikeRapp

[dcikon2]

Personally, I would prefer the Scouts not to go co-ed.  If this were to occur, then I do not see how they can still be called the "Scouts."  I do feel they can get back to fielding a strong all-male corps.  It will take a lot of recruiting, solid staff, and great leadership.  I am also hoping the Scouts make a huge push for Indy.  

[GetOFFmyDot]

 

BOLD IDEA.  I think Madison should honor their tradition and NOT go co-ed next year.  But..... they should announce that they will be fielding the first all-female world class corps.  

Talk about a revolutionary way to honor the past!  

[Mad75]

1 hour ago, MikeRapp said:

Clearly you are willing to die on the all-male hill. That's your right. 

"Slaps and shakes own head"...Who's dying on a hill called "all-male" when there isn't one that exists!  That's the point, you've created a false flag!  Until there exists a legitimate reason for Madison to even enter into the coed conversation, they've got some huge elephants living in the room that have gone unaddressed for years...I.E, incapable leadership.  For now, Madison going coed is a false narrative that should be aggressively rejected...There's no reason to do otherwise.

[MikeRapp]

11 minutes ago, Mad75 said:

"Slaps and shakes own head"...Who's dying on a hill called "all-male" when there isn't one that exists!  That's the point, you've created a false flag!  Until there exists a legitimate reason for Madison to even enter into the coed conversation, they've got some huge elephants living in the room that have gone unaddressed for years...I.E, incapable leadership.  For now, Madison going coed is a false narrative that should be aggressively rejected...There's no reason to do otherwise.

Just wondering, in your view, what would be "a legitimate reason" for Madison "to even enter into the coed conversation"?

[Tim K]

3 hours ago, brianella said:

 

 

Seriously can u prove that remaining all male will prevent them from folding. They are on a tragectory to fail or fold and they are all male, i don’t feel too passionate about it, but it would allow thematic options closed to them. Ie no more dancing with cardboard cut outs.

but I would prefer a James Mason making these decisions, I would follow his leadership. Maybe move the corps if Madison can’t support them.... 

It’s hard to say whether going coed is the right move or remaining all male is the right move. I think the reason for it is what matters most. If Madison opens its doors to young women, it does give young women a new opportunity. It could also be a breath of fresh air. If it is done just to save the corps, it may be too little too late. It could also be throwing out tradition. This decision has to be made in a more level headed atmosphere than it seems Scouts has at this time.

Regarding moving the corps, what would this accomplish? I’m not sure how much the wider Madison supports the corps financially, and moving to another community would mean finding new corporate donors and making new relationships which may be just another burden at this time. I’m also not sure moving the corps would make alums and donors who have stopped giving more prone to give. 

[GUARDLING]

Gender has nothing to do with issues