jasgre2000 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 23 hours ago, Spatzzz said: You seem to be speaking without any actual evidence to support your claims. When you say they were "known" issues where they officially reported issues or issues that were raised anonymously on social media? I'll say it again until I'm blue in the face. DCI can only act on officially reported issues. If you have proof that they ignored officially reported FACTUAL EVIDENCE and ignored it then your cries to burn the whole thing down will carry some weight. I'm not meaning to defend DCI here at every step but people have unrealistic expectations as to what they can actually do and clearly have no clue about the potential legal ramification if they go about willy nilly banning people and suspending corps without doing their due diligence. In the Pioneer case it appears that they received complaints via their newly instituted reporting mechanism, they investigated, they spoke with the corps about said issues and laid out a plan to correct. After the season was over more came to light and it was apparent that the corps didn't follow their course of actions and DCI then suspended them. What more do you want them to do? Seriously. What? Do they need to throw the book at everyone 1 day after an issue is reported without vetting it? An hour? 10 minutes? What? One could speculate that you robbed a bank. Should you be arrested based on speculation? Sorry for the rant......LOL This is nonsense. They don't have to wait for an official report to react. All of this was documented and discussed publicly in a podcast before the season even started. The idea that DCI could do nothing until an "official report" was filed is the most absurd excuse yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbobcat Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, jasgre2000 said: I just don't understand this excuse at all. You're telling me that a majority of the corps in DCI are resistant to protecting MMs and want to cover up abuse and wrongdoing? DCI's form of governance is not unusual at all for this type of activity. DCI also has the power to decide who gets to participate in shows and who doesn't ... that is ALL the power. I find the suggestion that DCI is unable to do anything in its current form to be absurd. The truth is that they just WON'T do anything, which is the real problem. It is the PEOPLE that need to change, not the governance structure. In my opinion, DCi's handling of a number of problems has nothing to do with protecting mm's,cevering up abuse etc. This is all about control. I don't think the corps directors want to give that up. Until they are willing to bring in outside people to run organization I don't see much change happening. As I posted before, create a governing board,independent of the corps. Let corps directors handle rules,scheduling and nothing else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, karuna said: No one is suggesting he's the sole issue but he was certainly a significant part of the problem When you hear rumors about sexual misconductt and member mistreatment in drum corps, don't you have a duty to investigate them? And if the corps directors decide to just cover up and refuse to take action, don't you have an ethical duty to (A) resign (B) bring those problems to light in the press ? Sorry. He's as guilty as anyone. YES! And there is potential criminal liability if you don't. This "I couldn't do anything" excuse does not fly anymore. Look at Penn State ... look who is in jail now over that fiasco. If DCI is not responsible for this, then who the hell is? They decide who is eligible to participate in the activity. Of course the corps themselves are primarily responsible, but there is plenty of blame to be placed at the feet of DCI and the idea that they were simply managing shows and didn't have any ability to do anything, or that they had to wait for an "official report" before they could investigate and implement policies to ensure the safety of members, is appalling. I'm sorry that I'm getting so worked about this stuff, but it is very serious #### and I'm tired of the efforts to shield those that could have and should have done something about this. I am the farthest thing from a "social justice warrior" you will find, but there are real victims out there because of DCI's negligence and I'm tired of the excuses. Edited August 25, 2018 by jasgre2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, rpbobcat said: In my opinion, DCi's handling of a number of problems has nothing to do with protecting mm's,cevering up abuse etc. This is all about control. I don't think the corps directors want to give that up. Until they are willing to bring in outside people to run organization I don't see much change happening. As I posted before, create a governing board,independent of the corps. Let corps directors handle rules,scheduling and nothing else. We have met the enemy and he is us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 28 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: You acede to him far greater powers than he has. The issue is the directors as they have the power Sorry. That doesn't fly anymore. He had been given "sole" power to discipline before the season started, as the article said. The fact that Pioneer had flagrantly put registered sex offenders on their staff is not a "rumor." It is a documented fact that was known before the season started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 28 minutes ago, jasgre2000 said: He has proven that he is incapable of doing the job. All the #### that is hitting the fan now about Pioneer was known and public before this season started. He has had his chance to act and hasn't. From everything I've heard, he is a great man. But that isn't enough to steer DCI through this mess. He needs to resign or be removed so someone with the capacity to deal with this can step in. So you knew before the season started. What did YOU do? (By the way, how could anyone have known about "all" of this before the season started? Time travel?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 24 minutes ago, E3D said: it is a lack of response and even on a real acknowledgement of DCI is a bit of a puzzle. So the directors of WC have the power. Ok well they should get the crap together. It will be telling in the future of this. Exactly right. I find that far more disturbing than the fact that Pioneer was allowed to tour this entire season. The lack of response from Dan, other corps directors, the board, etc. has been appalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 48 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: But should the 'someone else to investigate' be a reporter from a major metropolitan newspaper? Or should there be someone within the DCI umbrella, a sort of Inspector General, to do the investigation? Of course, that individual would cost $$, may need a staff ($$), as well as travel and other expenses ($$) A compelling case could be made that it ultimately cost DCI more $$$ to have most of this come thru the public press, than have DCI have taken care of this long ago with a Governing Body with sweeping powers to eradicate this culture of indefensible hires/ retentions in the 1st place. Man , oh Man, this sure is " expensive " to DCI and DCI HQ. now we should all be able to agree upon anyway. As Ben Franklin wisely stated a few hundred years ago, thats still applicable today :.... " an ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure " 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, rpbobcat said: In my opinion, DCi's handling of a number of problems has nothing to do with protecting mm's,cevering up abuse etc. This is all about control. I don't think the corps directors want to give that up. Until they are willing to bring in outside people to run organization I don't see much change happening. As I posted before, create a governing board,independent of the corps. Let corps directors handle rules,scheduling and nothing else. They don't have to give up control. Simply impose a set of eligibility rules that every sensible person would agree on. Require background checks of all corps staff and volunteers. Impose penalties (miss a show, suspension, probation, etc) for corps that are abusing MMs. These are the kinds of policies that could have and should have been implemented a decade ago. This kind of oversight is not new. If you can't get a majority of the corps to agree to that, then the whole thing needs to be burned to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, cixelsyd said: So you knew before the season started. What did YOU do? (By the way, how could anyone have known about "all" of this before the season started? Time travel?) Obviously they didn't know of the problems that happened during the season, but this isn't the first season that happened. It was well publicized on drum corps forums and on podcasts. The fact that he hired a registered sex offender is documented fact and DCI certainly knew about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts