Fred Windish Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Forget starting another topic. I'll just add this: Three controversies have caused levels of damage to what can be called the DCI brand, and drum & bugle corps generally. Some here have expressed fears the entire activity can go down over some of these incidents and the poor impressions they can create in the minds of members' parents, adult volunteers, and the general public. I do not believe that will happen, but significant changes should be expected. More must be done to protect the integrity of the brand itself. That might mean downsizing to be more manageable, better to monitor. At the risk of sounding too G-7 like, I contend DCI's highest, most visible level is from where all else flows. Call it World Class as now, or maybe, DCI Class. This to be the most exclusive group. Most difficult to enter. The reliable, stable, and best traveled groups. Look, this elite level is what best attracts large corporate sponsors, millions of dollars through gate admissions, product purchases, etc. DCI (the collective and its office staff) is the mothership that must be preserved. This is not a call for less drum & bugle corps throughout the nation! Newer, smaller, randomly operating throughout the nation are still encouraged. But, full DCI membership status is more difficult to achieve. No "Good Houskeeping Seal of Approval" merely by scoring more points from the judging panels. The "DCI Class" distinction, the right to wear that logo, etc. is earned by also meeting high standards of organizational performance. This class can be limited to members over the age of 18. These are the groups who are structured by DCI to embark on a national tour. We can't expect DCI to be held responsible for the operations of every group that picks-up brass, percussion, and other performers. That's not possible, and much too risky. There has to be a better way to differentiate those groups who carry the DCI banner from every other group operating under different management. Yes, the present issues have come from what is called World Class. There can be more to come. We need to consider ways to lessen the DCI brand's exposure to negative news. "Button it further up" You can't eliminate this type of thing, but can develop better safeguards. If DCI ever falls, regaining the current, prominent level of our beloved activity could takes many years to achieve. So, what changes would you make? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 5 hours ago, leanlion said: The OP, mfontz, clear thinking is to be commended. The Pioneer woes are more a matter of limited personnel, equipment maintenance and financial reserves than intentional uncaring attitudes of all staff towards to performers. No doubt DCI will be imposing strict conditions for the corps management. Upon the outcome of upcoming decisions I would hope the DCP community would aid the corps in the manner they reacted to the 2017 Legends tour fiasco. The Pioneer's long history thru good and bad times is worth consideration. I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. While those things are certainly in the picture, a corps going without proper medical attention (to the point of members helping injured members being discouraged when there was no available medical staff) , as well as whistle blowing members being chastised by corps leadership etc... speaks to gross negligence, incompetence, and a general disregard for the safety and wellbeing of the marching members. There is some very disturbing psychology going on with Roman IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatzzz Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Liahona said: I disagree. partial agreement DCI is a YOUTH activity and has been known as JUNIOR drum and bugle corps for decades. I would not be opposed though to TWO separate AGE CLASSES with the following age restrictions. Age 14 to 17 (Open Class) Age 18 to 21 (World Class) Why should a member that has the talent and ability to compete in WC not be allowed to do so? Conversely why should a member that does not have the talent but is over 17 not be allowed to compete with a corps that fits their level of talent? 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Spatzzz said: Why should a member that has the talent and ability to compete in WC not be allowed to do so? Conversely why should a member that does not have the talent but is over 17 not be allowed to compete with a corps that fits their level of talent? Talent and ability have nothing to do with this reasoning. You are completely missing the point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 I think the age thing hurts the activity. the biggest thing DCi needs is for the inmates to not be fully in charge of the asylum. More outside voice on the board, because time has proven the corps cannot police themselves 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, leanlion said: The OP, mfontz, clear thinking is to be commended. The Pioneer woes are more a matter of limited personnel, equipment maintenance and financial reserves than intentional uncaring attitudes of all staff towards to performers. No doubt DCI will be imposing strict conditions for the corps management. Upon the outcome of upcoming decisions I would hope the DCP community would aid the corps in the manner they reacted to the 2017 Legends tour fiasco. The Pioneer's long history thru good and bad times is worth consideration. Sure RB saying they got rid of the person on the predators list because "That is what society wants us to do" is because of limited resources and not because he didn't think it was important. After all "he only took pictures". Same with supposed abuse of people who used DCIs reporting policy. Yeah that was lack of resources too. Suuuuure the big problem was finances... Edited August 25, 2018 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 9 hours ago, BozzlyB said: gross negligence, incompetence, and a general disregard for the safety and well being of the marching members. BINGO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluzes Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, BozzlyB said: speaks to gross negligence, incompetence, and a general disregard for the safety and wellbeing of the marching members. Real-time monitoring of what the corps are up to is what is missing. The corps themselves use technology to get down the road. They place spotters ahead of the buses so they can maintain an 80 mile an hour speed limit or more, why. Did they squeeze an extra hour of practice in knowing they need to break the law to get to the next show? They duck their head in the sand, well everyone does that, it's normal to speed to the next show how else can we meet this demanding pace? If it was an objective to track speeds of the corps, identify corps that use this tactic, it's easy. Place all corps on an electronic dashboard and apply peer pressure to the worst offenders. That technology is available for dci or whoever to do just that. Of course, if I would point out that any concerned parent could do just that I am an animal and not merely a concerned parent, at all. If an MM was monitored through a Fitbit as to how much sleep them and the bus drivers or anyone on tour are getting it draws a lot of negative attention to the OP (no way does the peanut gallery on DCP want that). Corporations use real-time monitoring systems all the time. Crunch different regions against each other to identify weakness. Dci needs to step up their game. Have comparison dashboards hold corps responsible. How many MMs didn't participate in practice because of illness, identify corps that are not providing enough sleep. The buses don't leave till all members are electronically accounted for. Staff/ volunteer background checks electronically tracked, red flags sent to notify the safety committee of non-compliance. Dci needs to be run more like a modern corporation. I could go on&on how corporations protect themselves with electronic sniffers seeking out issues that they need to address now rather than later. Technology can work for you or against you, it's a choice you may not even know you made, till it's too late. Edited August 25, 2018 by Bluzes typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluzes Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 How is the WC tour developed, each year there seems to be an issue involving an accident. Is there justification of the distance between shows being in certain safety margins. Is the quality of sleep considered, is sleeping all crunched up on a speeding bus considered quality sleep? Some of us may remember Dan's comment introducing FLO to us last year. "I wish I could work the corps every night". It is comments like that, that come back to bite the entire organization creating a mindset that could backfire if the worst happens. Most of the time my posts are out of the box. Trying to fix things with solutions. What I don't see here is other solutions from those of you that know the inner workings a lot better than me. Are there no real solutions? Because all the gripping and name calling that this site is better known for does not accomplish much when comments come back after reading a few posts here "I am beginning to hate drum corps". Is that what the powers to be on DCP want to stand for, there is not much else going on. Let us step up our game DCP, you have the potential but would benefit from not being big babies by taking everything so personal. Now some folks that had had some respect for on DCP have lost all credibility I ignore your posts, question you're true intentions and it's not only me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenanne_1536 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 21 hours ago, Fred Windish said: Certainly changes will be coming. It is necessary to further insulate the "brand" from damaging conduct that makes moving into the future more difficult. A few ideas: 1. Make DCI Membership (Seal of Approval, etc.) a more difficult standard to achieve. Score at Championship should not be enough. I'm sure there are underlying qualifiers beyond just this, but are they as rigid as needed? 2. Limit participation in sanctioned DCI events to just 25 corps (Open and World combined). 3. Minimum age requirement to perform as a DCI corps set at 18. Maximum age 22. Everyone over the age of consent. 4. Reduce the size of certified corps adult instructional staff. Way too many techs these days to monitor. 5. Independent safety inspections of all rolling stock. 6. Legally Certified medical person with corps at all times during group travel and participation in DCI events. 7. Firm guidelines on practice hours and rest time. To clarify, it just seems the "elite level" of DCI performance groups have way too much at stake to be tarnished by smaller, kitchen table managed corps. I like your ideas. Especially #2. I think they should dump quarters. If you're open class you're done open class finals, and the champion gets to perform finals night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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