Recommended Posts

Just a few things from this thread:

  • Comparing Madison Scouts being male-only to Hooters and Rockettes.... I'm not even sure where to start with that one.
    • One of those three groups is a non-profit youth music group. One of the others is a sports bar that sells beer and sliders. The other is a paid dance group (that also holds both male and female auditions for their main Christmas Spectacular - and as far as I'm aware also for their Rockettes Summer Intensive youth program for those that look to join Rockettes one day - to show they have adapted as well).
  • Questioning why the same wasn't said about all-female drum corps and why nothing is being said now about them: They're gone... The majority of the people happy to see this change in Madison here in 2020 would be happy to see those groups changing... if they were still a thing. But they're gone...
  • Asking why people weren't upset over Crossmen's all-female guard. People WERE upset with them making that change, and rightfully so. Same with Phantom. I had no intention in supporting either group while they were like that, and the way both groups went about it was pretty terrible.
  • Bringing up cymbal lines... comparing gender restrictions to shifting instrument needs.... this is just so bad. 

 

Also, it's super ironic to be jokingly screaming about people needing "safe spaces" while simultaneously screaming to have an exclusionary space. Sounds kinda like the triggered snowflakes some of you speak of.


Which of you big boys want to go tell one of the talented women joining this year that you do not want them in your group, all for the sake of keeping it 'boys only, no girls allowed'? Anyone want to step up and do it? No? Just want to let rules do it? Want to go tell some of the guys at Spirit, or Boston, or Crown, or BD that they had a lesser experience than you did - all because their groups let women in it and your special super club didn't? Get yourselves together and help this group make it a wonderful season for all of the 2020 Scouts.

 

I do not care what reasons the Scouts had for doing this. What is important is that it is something GOOD. Society moves forward, groups learn and adapt. We can't go back and complain about how past groups didn't receive criticism - we have to view these groups as they are right now in 2020. 

In the words of someone wise:

3 hours ago, FlamMan said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with an organization defining their membership guidelines. There are waaaaaay too many people these days worrying about what everyone else is doing when they should prioritize their own family and friends.

 

Edited by JustEnjoyIt
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

no one that matters called on Madison to change

The members don’t matter? It’s THEIR drum corps and they asked for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, JustEnjoyIt said:

Just a few things from this thread:

  • Comparing Madison Scouts being male-only to Hooters and Rockettes.... I'm not even sure where to start with that one.
    • One of those three groups is a non-profit youth music group. One of the others is a sports bar that sells beer and sliders. The other is a paid dance group (that also holds both male and female auditions for their main Christmas Spectacular - and as far as I'm aware also for their Rockettes Summer Intensive youth program for those that look to join Rockettes one day - to show they have adapted as well).
  • Questioning why the same wasn't said about all-female drum corps and why nothing is being said now about them: They're gone... The majority of the people happy to see this change in Madison here in 2020 would be happy to see those groups changing... if they were still a thing. But they're gone...
  • Asking why people weren't upset over Crossmen's all-female guard. People WERE upset with them making that change, and rightfully so. Same with Phantom. I had no intention in supporting either group while they were like that, and the way both groups went about it was pretty terrible.
  • Bringing up cymbal lines... comparing gender restrictions to shifting instrument needs.... this is just so bad. 

 

Also, it's super ironic to be jokingly screaming about people needing "safe spaces" while simultaneously screaming to have an exclusionary space. Sounds kinda like the triggered snowflakes some of you speak of.


Which of you big boys want to go tell one of the talented women joining this year that you do not want them in your group, all for the sake of keeping it 'boys only, no girls allowed'? Anyone want to step up and do it? No? Just want to let rules do it? Want to go tell some of the guys at Spirit, or Boston, or Crown, or BD that they had a lesser experience than you did - all because their groups let women in it and your special super club didn't? Get yourselves together and help this group make it a wonderful season for all of the 2020 Scouts.

 

I do not care what reasons the Scouts had for doing this. What is important is that it is something GOOD. Society moves forward, groups learn and adapt. We can't go back and complain about how past groups didn't receive criticism - we have to view these groups as they are right now in 2020. 

In the words of someone wise:

 

i'll tell them do well. i don't care that they added women. the timing is fishy, the BOD has allowed failures to occur, and i love mocking hypocrites....and i use my real name here. big boy enough for you?

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, weedyweidenthal said:

The members don’t matter? It’s THEIR drum corps and they asked for it.

i've seen varying reports of if this happened or not. i dont care, if it helps fine. i do agree with others administration has made messes and alienated people long before last july

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:

i've seen varying reports of if this happened or not. i dont care, if it helps fine. i do agree with others administration has made messes and alienated people long before last july

Yup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, JustEnjoyIt said:

I do not care what reasons the Scouts had for doing this. What is important is that it is something GOOD. Society moves forward, groups learn and adapt. We can't go back and complain about how past groups didn't receive criticism - we have to view these groups as they are right now in 2020. 

 

Madison’s reasons for going coed are critical. If they did want to increase their talent pool, that is fine and it would be a good move. If it is reactionary, either doing something different just to do something different or a fear of not being able to field a corps, it could be problematic. 

Kilties went coed in 1978 due to recruitment and made finals that year, but it was a last hurrah. We also had some great merged corps such as North Star, Oakland Crusaders, and Seneca Optimists, and of course Crossmen, but only Crossmen survived. As I look back, I wonder if these corps had a vision of what the future would be. I don’t say this critically because that is not how people thought in the 1970’s, but I think it was for survival and after an initial boost, the groups fizzled. 

what I do not think Madison has done in a convincing way is stated why going coed is a good move or what a vision for a new Madison will be. If you look at a corps that has made the most progress in the past few years, Boston Crusaders, the vision for the corps has been clear for the past five years and you can see the roots of it going back to 2010 or so. For Madison the vision seems to be missing and what we see comes across as a combination of stop gap measures and fighting with alums.

I do hope Madison has a good summer. It would be great to see them return to finals, though that may be too big a leap. What I do hope is that by the end of the season, Madison has a plan as they move forward.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tim K said:

what I do not think Madison has done in a convincing way is stated why going coed is a good move or what a vision for a new Madison will be. If you look at a corps that has made the most progress in the past few years, Boston Crusaders, the vision for the corps has been clear for the past five years and you can see the roots of it going back to 2010 or so. For Madison the vision seems to be missing and what we see comes across as a combination of stop gap measures and fighting with alums.

I do hope Madison has a good summer. It would be great to see them return to finals, though that may be too big a leap. What I do hope is that by the end of the season, Madison has a plan as they move forward.

I thought they were very open and transparent last summer when they made the announcement that they were going coed because they couldn't attract enough members -- I'm pretty sure that's what they said --

I hope Madison is strong in 2020 too! I don't think they'll make finals - Carolina Crown didn't make top 12 until their 6th season - so we need to be patient with this new World Class corps --

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't have to be one reason and no others. Generally, it's many reasons to varying degrees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, tedrick said:

I thought they were very open and transparent last summer when they made the announcement that they were going coed because they couldn't attract enough members -- I'm pretty sure that's what they said --

I hope Madison is strong in 2020 too! I don't think they'll make finals - Carolina Crown didn't make top 12 until their 6th season - so we need to be patient with this new World Class corps --

Crown also had more competent leadership and a more experienced staff, especially when the made their major assent in the early 2000’s. CK in all his infinite wisdom and selfprophesizing chose to go the route of pretty much allowing a design team, other than Jenifo of course, to be assembled out of Open Class designers, or people with little to no experience to right the ship this season. 
 

Sad to see some still drinking the Koolaid, but that’s life. 

Edited by tesmusic
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tedrick said:

I thought they were very open and transparent last summer when they made the announcement that they were going coed because they couldn't attract enough members -- I'm pretty sure that's what they said --

 

I had no recollection of them saying that, so I went back to the announcement on DCI.org. Not one word about needing to attract enough members. Lots of other justification ( principles, diversity, non-discrimination) but nothing about - hey, we’re having trouble attracting members. Actually, had they said just that, I think there would have been a lot less pushback. Because the way they’ve packaged it seems very disingenuous to me. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.