Sunday, July 31st 5:15 PM “NightBEAT: The greatest show on Turf” … Truist Field at Wake Forest University Winston-Salem, NORTH CAROLINA

[Cappybara]

3 minutes ago, Poppycock said:

Are you advocating that DCI should not allow religion expression in any production? If so, then Cadets shouldn’t be allowed to wear the Holy Name patch either. 

I don’t think anyone has said anything about “allowing.” It’s art, they should be allowed to perform what they want. 
 

I believe both of us are just expressing our preference for religious expression to not be present in our drum corps shows, that’s all. 

[scheherazadesghost]

1 minute ago, Poppycock said:

Are you advocating that DCI should not allow religion expression in any production? If so, then Cadets shouldn’t be allowed to wear the Holy Name patch either. 

No. And I don't know why people are so hot about this. I'm going to have to stop commenting on BAC's show now because my eyes are seeing things wildly different than everyone and words are being put in my mouth about a championship contender. Heaven forbid that I have ONE personal preference that doesn't support the show that I've DOLING out affection for all ding-dang season.

I think creative expression should be as free as possible. That excludes some non G-rated themes for me personally, as things like depicting violence on the field (which I have been at the receiving end of) gets tricky without a qualified consent coach. But I would never tell a corps that they couldn't do the same. It's not my place and who cares what I think?

But, if I had my own way, I wouldn't field a show based on a religious theme. Again, personal preference.

I don't think DCP always understands fully how little our thoughts matter to the activity. That goes doubly for my thoughts as proven by my exile for decades.

[MusicManNJ]

6 minutes ago, Poppycock said:

Are you advocating that DCI should not allow religion expression in any production? If so, then Cadets shouldn’t be allowed to wear the Holy Name patch either. 

Or sing the Corps song...

[scheherazadesghost]

5 minutes ago, Onionhead2 said:

I’m sorry, it was probably an oversight or something. 

Nono, you're right to point it out if you have no other outlet for discussion. No need to apologize.

Just trying to set you on a better path for getting it fixed. I don't want my corps doing this. I just can't do much about it and that sucks.

[KVG_DC]

1 hour ago, brassboy said:

Agreed. Yes, Milton’s poem is based on a biblical story, but it’s simply literature. It’s far from theology. 

Milton has theological takes, but this show has abstracted the big moments of the poem so far from the theological takes its basically a 'based on Milton' thing.  

And the Milton dramatization is FAR from actual biblical accounts.  But since Milton wrote in the same English idiom of the King James Version, there's a long history of people saying they're quoting something "from the Bible" when they're really quoting Milton.  

Also Milton's influence on the 'pop theology' of the English speaking world of the time, including the Puritans who came to North America, means some of the lingering "that's in the Bible" assumptions people make are ... actually purely Milton's doing.  

My English prof in college was a Milton scholar and his FAVORITE thing was to call out people in church groups spouting Milton and claiming it was Biblical. He relished those moments and dealt it out well. Heh.  

So all that leads me to seeing this as an adaption of a literary text more than a religious one, it has overtones of course but yeah, it's not coming across as an explicitly religious message or sermon but a "here's a literary text of our culture translated to the field."  

I totally get that other people with other experiences and background will read this differently.  

[KVG_DC]

1 hour ago, kdaddy said:

Further, it could as easily be referred to as Torahic story.

Not if it's Milton.  I mean.  He's explicitly Christian and making an explicitly Christian reading of the Torahic story with the concept of Original Sin.  A Jewish reading of that story is not gonna carry any concept of Original Sin.    

[KVG_DC]

43 minutes ago, chris ncsu said:

Does a vid of that performance exist?

I dunno.  I just remember it being SUCH a moment on Flo. The energy between the corps and the crowd was amazing.

[KVG_DC]

I feel like I'm back discussing Inferno and the Dantean symbolism v. messaging again by the way.   A lot of people respond in ways that make me feel like, "I don't think this person has read the work."



😉

 

[Orwellian Wiress]

30 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

I believe both of us are just expressing our preference for religious expression to not be present in our drum corps shows, that’s all. 

Finally, someone said it first so I can repeat it and not feel scared. I'm totally cool with religious/mythological imagery (Inferno, Wicked Games, Goliath, Angels and Demons) but this is the REAL reason I always talk about how much I hate Cadets 2017. Unlike the above examples, that show is just plain uncomfortable to watch. Having samples of prayers in the show, the marchers sitting on the pews... as an atheist it really makes me cringe. In fact, I'm going to say this now and I don't care about the hate I'll get for this: The Cadets (as an organization) make me REALLY uncomfortable. This isn't any hate towards anyone in the Cadets past and present, but between that awful army show they did and 2017's cringefest, it really makes me wonder some things about the people in charge😳

[NakedEye]

41 minutes ago, runyancm said:

Interesting, everyone has different sensitivities to this kind of material, but this barely registers on the religious meter to me.  Not challenging anyone else's, a lot of individual experiences factor into how we interpret and consume art, particularly art that is inspired by a religious text.   

Having said that, I interpret the show as leveraging the story and imagery of the source material to field an awesome show.

And may I add, the source material is ripe with interesting stuff to work with. 

I don't find the show overtly religious in presentation, but it is the third somewhat religious-based theme they've had in the past few years: Salem Witch Trials, David & Goliath, and now this. It was enough to get my attention and wonder if this is a focused choice by the design team to lean into the Crusaders name and founding history of the corps as a source of identity. They don't go over the top with it, but it does seem to signal some intent.