Tenoris4Jazz Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 31 minutes ago, karuna said: We’ll agree to disagree ( if we do disagree and I’m not sure we do) . Percussion by its very nature is supportive and subservient to the wind ensemble. Klesch is always respectful of the original composition. Hannum fit this writing like a glove but there’s no way his writing can be competitive in today’s DCI. Anyway I agree 1000% that Jackson’s approach is very musical. But it’s not me you need to convince! As a long time crown honk, I’d gladly have traded a few Otts for a few rings. The rest of the corps deserved it multiple times but the musical design and its impact on the score made it seem like the percussion was letting the corps down. Frequently that was not the case at all. Off my my soap box. Let’s give this new team a chance! It's not unprecedented to have the percussion trailing behind everything else, even in a championship level group. The '81 Blue Devils finished 2nd by 0.3 points with a 9th place percussion caption. They were 1.6 points behind Vanguard (2nd) and 2 full points behind The Bridgemen in 1st. If they had just finished 5th in technical percussion (BD was 2nd in drums GE), they would have beaten SCV by 0.7 points for the title and won 4 titles in a row (1979-1982). The brass line, meanwhile, didn't drop a sub-caption during those 4 years. It's also not unprecedented to have the brass line trailing behind. Check this out: Vanguard Year Brass Placement in Finals 1973 8 1 1974 5 1 1978 7 1 1981 4 1 Bottom line is: there are four scoring areas, you need to nail GE and finish high in two of the remaining three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbass598 Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, karuna said: We’ll agree to disagree ( if we do disagree and I’m not sure we do) . Percussion by its very nature is supportive and subservient to the wind ensemble. Klesch is always respectful of the original composition. Hannum fit this writing like a glove but there’s no way his writing can be competitive in today’s DCI. Anyway I agree 1000% that Jackson’s approach is very musical. But it’s not me you need to convince! As a long time crown honk, I’d gladly have traded a few Otts for a few rings. The rest of the corps deserved it multiple times but the musical design and its impact on the score made it seem like the percussion was letting the corps down. Frequently that was not the case at all. Off my my soap box. Let’s give this new team a chance! If by stating that Klesch is respectful of the original composition means that he has the winds cover all the melodic parts and leaves the front ensemble and the rest of percussion in the background with little room to add anything I think I understand you. I've arranged percussion to many marching band books where the wind arranger virtually covers everything in the wind book and leaves me little room to do anything creative from a percussion standpoint. This is pretty common in marching band when the arranger chooses to transcribe versus create something new with the content. I'm not saying Klesch does this but if he stays true to the original composition he may be limiting his own creativity for the sake of making it sound like the source material. The band I currently work with has a new show designer this year and I'm excited to work with a new and more comprehensive design for our show next fall. People will notice the difference. I'm hoping the Jackson and Shah additions have a real positive impact on the show design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicteacher Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 I'm not saying I disagree, but it's a little sad when the efforts of one of the best music writing teams of the past 20-plus years can be dismissed as not giving the corps the opportunity to be competitive. Thom has said it for years: his primary responsibility as a writer is to support the wind score. Klesch and Hannum worked hand in glove in various venues to create an artistic vision. They succeeded. If this isn't au Courant, so be it, but...the activity is just a little poorer for that. The bright, shiny object in the activity has often been what's new. I am fully confident that Michael and Thom's oeuvre will stand the test of time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbass598 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 13 hours ago, musicteacher said: I'm not saying I disagree, but it's a little sad when the efforts of one of the best music writing teams of the past 20-plus years can be dismissed as not giving the corps the opportunity to be competitive. Thom has said it for years: his primary responsibility as a writer is to support the wind score. Klesch and Hannum worked hand in glove in various venues to create an artistic vision. They succeeded. If this isn't au Courant, so be it, but...the activity is just a little poorer for that. The bright, shiny object in the activity has often been what's new. I am fully confident that Michael and Thom's oeuvre will stand the test of time. There is nothing taking away from their accomplishments. I don't think anything is being "dismissed" but times change and its always a struggle to be on the top of the mountain. Thom is a hall of famer for a reason and absolutely deserves it but I don't think his name is the talent draw of some other teachers today. Mike, Kevin, and the staff they hired are the top of the WGI game right now and had solid success with BK. They might just be the missing piece of the puzzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Crown's percussion came a long way since 2013. LONG. but sometimes partnerships end for a variety of reasons. I however think that treating percussion to be lesser than brass in terms of importance is a flaw. it's a marriage of equals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 On 1/16/2023 at 11:03 PM, Tenoris4Jazz said: Bottom line is: there are four scoring areas, you need to nail GE and finish high in two of the remaining three. Nothing here to contradict my previous post. You posted stats; I posted a possible explanation of the stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karuna Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 16 hours ago, musicteacher said: I'm not saying I disagree, but it's a little sad when the efforts of one of the best music writing teams of the past 20-plus years can be dismissed as not giving the corps the opportunity to be competitive. Thom has said it for years: his primary responsibility as a writer is to support the wind score. Klesch and Hannum worked hand in glove in various venues to create an artistic vision. They succeeded. If this isn't au Courant, so be it, but...the activity is just a little poorer for that. The bright, shiny object in the activity has often been what's new. I am fully confident that Michael and Thom's oeuvre will stand the test of time. Can't disagree with this. And from a full ensemble aspect I've loved what Klesch/Harloff/Hannum have put on the field. OTOH there have been definitely been shows where the percussion book was not what the performers deserved. And frequently the percussion section was thrown under the bus for playing what they were given. Anyway I have high hopes for the new percussion team. But it will require a willingness of the brass guys to give them a free hand. Anyway nice to see a little action on the Crown Thread! GO CROWN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOC Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 On 1/17/2023 at 9:39 PM, Jeff Ream said: I however think that treating percussion to be lesser than brass in terms of importance is a flaw. it's a marriage of equals. Not from my armchair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicteacher Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 Jeff, is it your opinion that Klesch is flawed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenoris4Jazz Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 On 1/18/2023 at 12:24 AM, karuna said: Nothing here to contradict my previous post. You posted stats; I posted a possible explanation of the stats. Let's face it... for several years now the formula has been if you could take GE and Visual, it didn't matter if you didn't have a 1st place sound technically. GE/Visual/Music Analysis make up 80% of the score. Actual playing only counts for 20%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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