Santa Clara Vanguard 2023 Announcement Thread

[MarimbaManiac]

33 minutes ago, seinphan said:

I have many, many friends that have marched percussion for SCV from the late 80's thru the early 2000's. Lots of people from the South-Alabama, Tennessee, a lot from Texas. Paul and Sandy have done nothing but put Jonz back where they should be. Back where Fred, Ralph, Scott, Jim-n-Murray had them for each of their respective tenures.

People can bash the Rennicks and complain all they want, but you can't connect the dots from "the Rennicks are from Denton" all the way to "SCV takes a year off."  

It's really not that difficult to connect those dots. 

Rennicks come in and cut the recruiting ties with the Cadets corps, instead choosing to focus on recruitment in Texas -> This cuts the legs off of their local support system, meaning fewer students from the area, fewer volunteers working bingo, fewer family, friends, acquaintances supporting the organization through donations and bingo business -> It also requires a significant investment in having camps in Texas, causing huge up front costs to the organization instead of basically FREE camps at the corps hall -> This increases housing, fuel, staff, food costs exponentially because the brass and percussion are rehearsing separately (twice the camps), but becomes a necessary expense because they no longer have a local recruiting system to fall back on -> Operating costs shoot through the roof because they are overextending themselves with a footprint that extends to two states -> SCV folds. 

 

Is it fair to put all of the blame on them? No, but they are absolutely a contributing factor, and their arrogance has alienated generations of alumni and decimated their local support system. They do not have clean hands. 

[perc2100]

1 hour ago, C.Holland said:

1 hour ago, Lead said:

Also don't forget most corps won't "cast" you these days if you are an absolute monster player but weigh over 210-ish lbs. You no longer look the part.

Along with what C Holland said... it's a sad state of affairs as well for corps to string along these "alternates" all summer just to fill a hole in the middle of Wisconsin with a college kid who flew in from Texas.

yeah. seen that as well.  which is truly unfortunate.  had a great brass student audition, and be brought back to camps to basically be "sized" to see their progress in mass lost between camps. 

And this isn't a new thing.  I've known ladies who were rejected from a certain Top 12 Illinois drum corps in the early 90's for being above the weight requirement; and conversely others who were rejected for being below the height requirement.  I've heard stories (from members AND instructors) of this happening in the 00's as well.  Corps who have the luxury of having 1000 people coming to audition for 75 open spots want to take the perfect rookies.  I'm not saying that's right, but that's reality (and, some of those corps won multiple championships with that ethos, so I'm sure those staffers would say that WAS right for that moment)

[MarimbaManiac]

7 minutes ago, gbass598 said:

I can't figure out why local talent versus talent that travels has anything to do with this issue. Kids pay their own fees and travel expenses to get there. In the band world, these are national touring groups who just happen to call a city a home base. The Cadets have moved a few times. The Crossmen have been labeled as everywhere from PA, to DE, to now TX.

20+ years ago there may have been more local members but kids want to be in the best and they find a way to do it. It doesn't matter if the SCV drumline comes from TX, CA, or Japan. None of this changes the fund raising issues that organizations have and none of it makes those members any more or less important than another. None of the top World Class corps are teaching members how to play their instruments. They are contracting people who are already extremely proficient with their skill sets. They all put the best possible people in their spots regardless of where they came from. Both BD and SCV stopped requiring members to move to CA in January over 20 years ago.

We live in a world today where kids are getting wonderful educations in a variety of locations. Many successful school music programs, WGI groups, etc. A corps financial issues have very little to none to do with where membership and staff come from.

Operating costs. When they're hosting separate brass and percussion camps in two different states, the costs to run those camps easily explodes. Not to mention the loss of a local support system. It's not about the members being from outside the bay area, I marched with lots of people from all over, it's the moving of operations to a different state. 

[Terri Schehr]

47 minutes ago, Bob984 said:

Just a few years ago, another corps, that I will leave nameless, sent out pleas for money and that they were in bad shape fiscally.......meanwhile, in that same time frame, they spent $80,000 on props which really didn't do much at all for the show.......ie money down the toilet......corners CAN be cut....left and right....and the activity can survive....but the current spend, spend, spend model is going to fail.  Some of these corps have boards with 12-20 people on them....they had better figure it out, and fast.

I’ve got a story.  I was donating monthly to a corps and I had my card compromised in December 2019 and I had to get a new one. So I contacted the corps and let them know that I needed to change my credit card.  I called several times and was even told that they’d call me back and get the number. Nothing for months. They continued to run the old card and it was rejected, of course.  It was a canceled card, 😂. 15 to 20 times they ran that card.

So in the late spring of 2020, DCI cancels the season. Then the day after,  I hear from the corps and then they wanted my new credit card number.  I didn’t even respond. That was it for me. I haven’t donated to a drum corps since after decades of donating.   Some of these corps need to treat their donors with a little more respect. I’m not looking for anyone to kiss my ### but I shouldn’t have to beg someone to PLEASE TAKE MY CREDIT CARD NUMBER so I can give you money. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Terri Schehr

[2muchcoffeeman]

6 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Operating costs. When they're hosting separate brass and percussion camps in two different states, the costs to run those camps easily explodes. ... It's not about the members being from outside the bay area, I marched with lots of people from all over, it's the moving of operations to a different state. 

As someone who regularly sees the financials of one WC corps, I don't see evidence of this. The combined costs of all camps, in all locations around the country, don't come anywhere close to the 14-week cost of running the summer tour. The difference is many orders of magnitude. We could eliminate all winter camps, and it really wouldn't move the needle much -- other than cratering the ability to put a corps on the field.

[JimF-LowBari]

10 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

I’ve got a story.  I was donating monthly to a corps and I had my card compromised in December 2019 and I had to get a new one. So I contacted the corps and let them know that I needed to change my credit card.  I called several times and was even told that they’d call me back and get the number. Nothing for months. They continued to run the old card and it was rejected, of course.  It was a canceled card, 😂. 15 to 20 times they ran that card.

So in the late spring of 2020, DCI cancels the season. Then the day after,  I hear from the corps and then they wanted my new credit card number.  I didn’t even respond. That was it for me. I haven’t donated to a drum corps since after decades of donating.   Some of these corps need to treat their donors with a little more respect. I’m not looking for anyone to kiss my ### but I shouldn’t have to beg someone to PLEASE TAKE MY CREDIT CARD NUMBER so I can give you money. 

Then we have my olde Pioneer story of donating to members through the corps “Support Our Pioneer Youth (SOPY)”. Instructions are send check to corps with name of member and trust corps to spend it on that member. Also “we” (assumed the corps) will acknowledge the donation. Two years running I donate and two years running I get no acknowledgment they got the check. Email corps to see if they got the checks or someone ripped them off. RB hisself responded and BLAMED THE MEMBER for not acknowledging. Topped it off by sending members personal email address (big personal security no no in my job) and said to deal with the member directly. Well you know where my money didn’t go after that

[scheherazadesghost]

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Edited June 13, 2023 by scheherazadesghost

[Terri Schehr]

1 minute ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Then we have my olde Pioneer story of donating to members through the corps “Support Our Pioneer Youth (SOPY)”. Instructions are send check to corps with name of member and trust corps to spend it on that member. Also “we” (assumed the corps) will acknowledge the donation. Two years running I donate and two years running I get no acknowledgment they got the check. Email corps to see if they got the checks or someone ripped them off. RB hisself responded and BLAMED THE MEMBER for not acknowledging. Topped it off by sending members personal email address (big personal security no no in my job) and said to deal with the member directly. Well you know where my money didn’t go after that

It just makes me realize why a lot of them are chasing their tails right now. Oh well.🤷‍♀️

[seinphan]

27 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

It's really not that difficult to connect those dots. 

Rennicks come in and cut the recruiting ties with the Cadets corps, instead choosing to focus on recruitment in Texas -> This cuts the legs off of their local support system, meaning fewer students from the area, fewer volunteers working bingo, fewer family, friends, acquaintances supporting the organization through donations and bingo business -> It also requires a significant investment in having camps in Texas, causing huge up front costs to the organization instead of basically FREE camps at the corps hall -> This increases housing, fuel, staff, food costs exponentially because the brass and percussion are rehearsing separately (twice the camps), but becomes a necessary expense because they no longer have a local recruiting system to fall back on -> Operating costs shoot through the roof because they are overextending themselves with a footprint that extends to two states -> SCV folds. 

 

Is it fair to put all of the blame on them? No, but they are absolutely a contributing factor, and their arrogance has alienated generations of alumni and decimated their local support system. They do not have clean hands. 

Boston, Spirit, Blue Knights and too many other corps to mention have satellite camps in Texas and other states that are not their "home" state. This isn't a novel idea that only SCV uses and they weren't the first to do this. Texas has an enormous amount of talent and to not try to tap into that would be foolish. Even if Paul and Sandy were running the drumline this way and routinely finishing in the 5-10 range, they still wouldn't be to blame for this. To have the run they've had in percussion is something that SCV hasn't done since the 70's. Did Ralph, Scott and Jim win a Sanford? Yes. Did any of them have the sustained runs of top 2 finishes? No. What they do clearly works.

I've met Paul and Sandy. I wouldn't call them friends, we've literally only met once or twice. They were both very friendly and the multitude of people that I know who have known them for years have nothing but positive things to say about them as people and teachers.

Again, SCV isn't folding because of Paul and Sandy Rennick.

 

[perc2100]

So who can tell us what the most successful corps is that's taken a year off and come back?  Is there a current corps now that took a year or two off to reorganize and sustained viability? 

I know Magic of Orlando took two years off and came back immediately into Finals (after having to compete in Open Class throughout the season: the only corps to win Open Class, then make Finals later that week IIRC), but they couldn't sustain and were only to field a corps for 5 years when they returned (only 2 of which made Finals).  

I can't think of a more successful story of a corps coming back from a year or two off, and certainly no corps that came back and returned to financial stability long-term.  As mentioned, WGI groups do this relatively frequently, especially guards, so maybe this is a more financially stable/viable alternative for DCI corps in the future: a 'one year off/two years on' kind of business model, perhaps.  

IDK; I'm trying to think of a positive outcome for SCV here from a historical perspective.  Obviously has lived by their name, being at the vanguard/forefront of the activity so if any corps can defy history it's SCV.